Ford losing out by not selling XR8? - Page 2

Dash_XR · 15-09-2012, 09:34 PM

What engine would they put in it? An NA 5.0?

XR Martin · 15-09-2012, 09:43 PM

Special edition XR8 Sprint with the Boss 302 444hp engine please

Auslandau · 15-09-2012, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Once again we see the word profit being used instead of capital. Ford's intention was to always return the XR8 so it must have some proftitability. Ford only has a certain amount of money to spend, and so they chose sales disasters like Ecoboost (which 90% of this forum had a circlejerk over when it was announced) instead of vehicles like XR8. Meanwhile one in four Commodores is a V8 and this proportion is growing.

My wife and I dont have the funds to purchase the Commonwealth Bank, does that mean that the Commonwealth Bank isnt profitable? of course it doesn't.

......... if a return of investment to shoe horn something into the Falcon and call it an XR8 and there was a case to answer for it where it would turn a profit ..... then it would be viable. It really is very simple.

It doesn't matter if every Commodore was a V8 ...... if Ford believe that they could turn a profit from having an XR8 ..... they would then invest the capital to do it. Circles and we just keep going around in them!!!!

There were other reasons why the EcoBoost was engineered for the Falcon here ..... and it wasn't entirely for the sake of making sales but something very much more long term. Something that I am not going into in this thread as has nothing to do with the topic.

BaraFGXR6 · 15-09-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

Do you think Ford are losing out on a fair amount of sales by no longer offering the XR8?

I was talking to someone just the other day who currently owns an FG XR6 and his lease runs out on that in 6 months time, he has only ever owned falcons and his next car will most likely be the last car he buys and he wants it to be a V8.

Seeing as ford now only sell the FPV 8's at $60,000 they are out of his price range so he will most likely be buying an SS Commodore for $40,000 for the first time in his life.

Look at the amount of SS's you see on the road everyday, I think there is still a market in aus for V8's.

?????

Have we met before? Massive dejavu here.

Bossxr8 · 15-09-2012, 11:05 PM

Now that Ford control FPV there's no reason come 2014 they couldn't bring the XR8 back in. They could even do it as early as January.

If they could fit the intercooled Miami thats already been developed into the GT with say 351 or so kw, give the 335 to the GS and take the XR6 Turbo, add the bonnet buldge and 315 engine and price it say 5-7k cheaper than GS.

I think its feasible, considering they no longer have the added expense of shipping cars to Broadmeadows to do final finishing, and I think there is enough things on the GS that can be deleted to bring the cost down ie. no stripes, no twin exhaust, no starter button and gauges and whatever else the GS gets over the XR's.

Its a hell of a lot cheaper to use the 315 thats already been developed rather than go back to the Coyote like they were playing around with for an XR8 a year or 2 ago. They were trying to develop their own intake manifold to move the throttle body from the front to the side, apparently it didn't work too well either.

**SSD-85** · 15-09-2012, 11:20 PM

Its probably been said over & over, with both the pros & cons but;

I personally feel that dropping the GS name & adding the XR8(S; for supercharged) would benefit sales.

Utilizing the GS name only attracts ford fans & people who remember the name.

The XR6T introduced new customers, I believe that if we give the XR8 the same "hot-tuner" persona it would achieve the same the I6T did. Whilst satisfying the demands for a cheap V8.

But with large sedan sales are dwindling as it is, so it would be an "interesting" gamble by Ford.

Just an opinion, as flawed as it may be.

prydey · 15-09-2012, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Now that Ford control FPV

i would say this development could see quite a few possibilities that they wouldn't have been too keen on before.

if they do as you say, it may cost them in GS and/or GT sales, but given they are now the same company, not competing as such, will it really matter?? i would say not.

they were never going to consider it whilst FPV were selling GS's. whether this remains the same once the new situation takes over remains to be seen.

prydey · 15-09-2012, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

satisfying the demands for a cheap V8.

if, for arguments sake, they did bring back the XR8, i doubt very much it will be a cheap v8.

**SSD-85** · 15-09-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

if, for arguments sake, they did bring back the XR8, i doubt very much it will be a cheap v8.

One could only hope that it could be priced around that of an SS (not an SSV).

Wishful thinking I know.

prydey · 15-09-2012, 11:34 PM

it would be priced according to their own lineup, not the competition. they wouldn't price it less than xr6t and i'd be very surprised if it was on par.

all speculation anyway.

**SSD-85** · 15-09-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

it would be priced according to their own lineup, not the competition. they wouldn't price it less than xr6t and i'd be very surprised if it was on par.

all speculation anyway.

Traditionally, the XR8 was always priced higher. So it would be of no suprise.

As for speculation, that seems to be the very topic of this thread

No matter how hard it is discussed on AFF, it wont change what Ford decides (which im sure would be in concrete by now). Its all literally a matter of time.

Bossxr8 · 15-09-2012, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i would say this development could see quite a few possibilities that they wouldn't have been too keen on before.

if they do as you say, it may cost them in GS and/or GT sales, but given they are now the same company, not competing as such, will it really matter?? i would say not.

they were never going to consider it whilst FPV were selling GS's. whether this remains the same once the new situation takes over remains to be seen.

Ford wanted the GS to be an XR8 anyway, but with Prodrive having controlling interest they won out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

if, for arguments sake, they did bring back the XR8, i doubt very much it will be a cheap v8.

If the GS is 58k? I think then they could possibly get it down to maybe 50-52k, which makes it seem a lot more affordable to me. No LCT as well?

And the beauty of this would be for me, a full 21% discount and not 14% like we get with FPV's at the moment, now that they are full Ford vehicles. God I hope so cause that will be my next ride. Low 40k supercharged XR8 sounds good to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

One could only hope that it could be priced around that of an SS (not an SSV).

Wishful thinking I know.

They'd never get a price anywhere near the SS. Half way between an SS and an SSV would be good.

scottyg938 · 16-09-2012, 12:39 AM

My point wasn't exactly that they should brimg back the xr8, more they are losing a fair cgunk of business to holden due to the fact that there is a huge price gap between am entry level v8 commodore and falcon.
Yes the falcon v8 is better than the commodore 8, but $15-20,000 better?

And to those saying about I didnt buy one when they were new... Well no, I like most 17 year olds could not afford one when they were new, but the person who I was talking about in the first post, he did own an ba v8 which he bought new untill he got his fg which he also bought new and again is in the position to buy another new v8, just not for the price ford is currently charging for one.

Sorry for any typo's there, at work and posting from my phone

prydey · 16-09-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

My point wasn't exactly that they should brimg back the xr8, more they are losing a fair cgunk of business to holden due to the fact that there is a huge price gap between am entry level v8 commodore and falcon.
Yes the falcon v8 is better than the commodore 8, but $15-20,000 better?

i think this is a false way of thinking. most people who buy v8 commodores aren't swinging buyers. they were always going to buy a v8 commodore. if ford offered a v8, even at the same price point, i would suggest it would make little to no difference. in fact, at one point they did drop the price of the xr8 to the same $45k of the sv8. didn't matter. holden then rebadged the sv8 as the ss and created the v series.

holden will always sell more v8's because the v6 has traditionally been rubbish and they don't have a hypo turbo 6 either.

scottyg938 · 16-09-2012, 01:04 AM

That may be so but there is at least one buyer that will most likely end up in a holden simply because ford dont have any 8s in the same price range and i'm sure he isn't the only one too

flappist · 16-09-2012, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

That may be so but there is at least one buyer that will most likely end up in a holden simply because ford dont have any 8s in the same price range and i'm sure he isn't the only one too

They don't have any manual lpg V8 XR IRS wagons either.

If he wants a V8 Ford he buys a GS or GT. If he can't afford one then he will have to settle for a lesser vehicle.......life is like that.....

scottyg938 · 16-09-2012, 01:29 AM

And that is what he is going to do, it has pushed him away from buying a ford and into a holden instead

EB# · 16-09-2012, 07:48 AM

I would hazard a guess that the 'holden/ford fence sitting' market category
for SS or XR8 V8 (or SSV/GS) sales is tiny. Aside from the issue of the end of the
emissions life-cycle for the Boss engine, obviously Ford have not continued
the XR8 because there is no money in it. Why re-engineer (possibly N/A 5.0?)
and re-package for such a small market?

The eco-boost 4 ain't selling that's for sure, and that market could be
deemed a much larger opportunity!.... And that's another story, as we have
read extensively here on the forums.

I am probably in the category of "maybe one day, I'd like to buy a brand
new XR8", but I never have. I also tend to think that a lot of the forum talk
here regards the demise of the XR8 is just a form of lament that it looks like
the very end of this V8 marque.... Geez, all Falcon sales numbers are sustaining
heavy, heavy losses and perhaps the XR8 along with the Fairlane were the
early casualties.

jpd80 · 16-09-2012, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB92

I am probably in the category of "maybe one day, I'd like to buy a brand
new XR8", but I never have. I also tend to think that a lot of the forum talk
here regards the demise of the XR8 is just a form of lament that it looks like
the end very of this marque.... Geez, all Falcon sales numbers are sustaining
heavy, heavy losses and perhaps the XR8 (along with the Fairlane) were the
early casualties.

I wonder whether the current FPVs could be granthfathered down a step to make space for three cars:

Here's my plan:

1) new GT - derived from 351 Kw S/C intercooled R Spec suspension - 75K

2) new GS - derived from superseded 335 Kw GT but with GS nose - $63K

3) a new XR8 - derived from superseded 315 GS, as a bargain basement $54K

Such a re use of vehicles would allow a repositioning of the GT in line with the next HSV S/C GTS,
the new GS would have it all over the R8 and the new XR8 would probably embarrass the Clubsport..
Believe me, Ford will need to do something like this if the FG II Hi Pos are to compete with VF HSVs
for the expected 18 month haul until the 2014 Falcon arrives, the Fords will need to really gap the VFs
in order to keep sales afloat - there's plenty of ex Ford V8 buyers in other vehicles that would
probably return with the right products on sale.....

These ideas are all about finding a way to provide +$50KFalcons to the HP market and give Ford the income
it needs to maintain Falcon production in Australia, finding ways to boost $40K to $50K sales would also help.
That may be an area where Ford better utilizes the I-6 Turbo in G and XR series rather than a V8...

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2012, 10:46 AM

Has the XR8 ever been any good anyways? It was junk when it was introduced in the E series cars, the XR6 was quicker because it was lighter and very close to the same power/torque output.

Not sure about AU though someone else can fill us in on that.

But then when B series comes about, the XR6T is quicker than the XR8 again.

Makes you wonder why you would bother with 8 cylinders when a turbo 6 blows it out of the water.

It seems all the rage these days is small cars, SUVs and dual cab 4X4 utes anyways, so why bother with Falcon at all? Had the chance to locally produce the Focus too.

flappist · 16-09-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

And that is what he is going to do, it has pushed him away from buying a ford and into a holden instead

Well good for him.

There is too much "It is too hard, I am not good enough, YOU have to make allowances for ME" in the world already......

jimmyxr6t04 · 16-09-2012, 10:59 AM

If he's leasing i'm pretty sure he'll find there is bugger all difference in cost between the GS and the SS. Through my lease provider, the GS is listed as $52,600 for an auto, and the SSV is listed at $52,000 for the auto...

So, a few grand difference (tops if you add some options) between the two when leasing... Hardly worth worrying about over the course of a lease!

Edit: an auto SS is listed at 45k... So, there isn't a massive difference when leasing...

Auslandau · 16-09-2012, 11:00 AM

jpd80... In that scinario, I think you just killed off the GS

MitchG · 16-09-2012, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Has the XR8 ever been any good anyways? It was junk when it was introduced in the E series cars, the XR6 was quicker because it was lighter and very close to the same power/torque output.

Not sure about AU though someone else can fill us in on that.

But then when B series comes about, the XR6T is quicker than the XR8 again.

Makes you wonder why you would bother with 8 cylinders when a turbo 6 blows it out of the water.

It seems all the rage these days is small cars, SUVs and dual cab 4X4 utes anyways, so why bother with Falcon at all? Had the chance to locally produce the Focus too.

your right.

why would any body want a v8...

who needs large amounts of torque.
who needs grunt.
who needs to pull trailers & carry tools.
who needs the glorious sound of 8 cylinders.
who needs v8 super cars.
who needs a SC 5L V8.

few small exaples....

i guess none of this matters since then turbo 6 is quicker.

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchG

your right.

why would any body want a v8...

who needs large amounts of torque.
who needs grunt.
who needs to pull trailers & carry tools.
who needs the glorious sound of 8 cylinders.
who needs v8 super cars.
who needs a SC 5L V8.

few small exaples....

i guess none of this matters since then turbo 6 is quicker.

Oh gee, I didn't realise you needed a petrol V8 to tow? I wonder how all those people in dual cab 4x4s or vans with diesel 4 cylinder engines are getting their trailers and tools to and from work?

This fits in the back of my Focus with the rear seats down:

How many V8 Falcons sell a month compared to everything else? That's how many people need V8s.

Its not 1970 anymore.

jpd80 · 16-09-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

jpd80... In that scinario, I think you just killed off the GS

I thought I made it better by basing it off a soon to be superseded GT instead of the XR8 car....

flappist · 16-09-2012, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchG

your right.

why would any body want a v8...

who needs large amounts of torque.
who needs grunt.
who needs to pull trailers & carry tools.
who needs the glorious sound of 8 cylinders.
who needs v8 super cars.
who needs a SC 5L V8.

few small exaples....

i guess none of this matters since then turbo 6 is quicker.

It the XR8 was all this I am most interested in your explanation for hardly anyone buying them even when they were exactly the same price as the XR6T?

jimmyxr6t04 · 16-09-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Oh gee, I didn't realise you needed a petrol V8 to tow? I wonder how all those people in dual cab 4x4s or vans with diesel 4 cylinder engines are getting their trailers and tools to and from work?

How many V8 Falcons sell a month compared to everything else? That's how many people need V8s.

Its not 1970 anymore.

A lot of people don't "need" a lot of things... Some people "want" things though, and it's fantastic to be able to have the option... Do i "need" a large LWB 6 litre Caprice AND a dual cab 4x4 with a wife and 2 kids? Nope, but do i want them? Yep...

jpd80 · 16-09-2012, 11:17 AM

IIRC, ther was always some reason why the 5.4 wasn't good enough to buy new but an absolute bargain when it was second hand......

Maybe XR8 buyers are now basically in the second hand market......

Oh, in 2010 there was the big rumor that the next XR8 would be a supercharged, so people waited for an XR8 that never came...
Maybe those people didn't want to pay $60,000 for basically the same thing an XR8 S/C presented as a GS......

People are funny like that, you gotta give the market what they want....

Franco Cozzo · 16-09-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

A lot of people don't "need" a lot of things... Some people "want" things though, and it's fantastic to be able to have the option... Do i "need" a large LWB 6 litre Caprice AND a dual cab 4x4 with a wife and 2 kids? Nope, but do i want them? Yep...

Not enough people wanted them otherwise the XR8 would still be on sale.