Ecoboost Territory - would it sell?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Diesel utes are 4WD dual cabs which Falcon ute is not - Ranger covers that market...

Single cab, dual cab, 4wd or 2wd, the market has shifted to diesel. Falcon ute needs it. If diesel wasnt a big deal, you would see the biggest amount of petrol 4wd dual cabs sold on record with the massive explosion in dual cab sales. But, what has happened is that petrol dual cabs are almost extinct.

Petrol is suicide for any ute, especially a one-tonner cab chassis like the Falcon.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by mwhit43

haha, yes i would buy that but that would cost more to buy but cheaper to run :???

Inital outlay will be $2k more, you will soon make that back, in as little as 18 months and then save thousands a year

PLUS you are doing your bit by being green!

God bless LPG

[RASER]

Originally Posted by csv8

or one of these engines ??

F-150 Specifications
Engine Specifications
Engine type 3.7L V6 3.5L V6 EcoBoost® 5.0L V8 6.2L V8
Engine Control System Electronic Electronic Electronic Electronic
Horsepower (SAE net@rpm) 302 @ 6500 365 @ 5000 360 @ 5500 411 @ 5500
Torque (lb.-ft. @rpm) 278 @ 4000 420 @ 2500 380 @ 4250 434 @ 4500

I love the F150!

Happy with the base BOG STOCK 302HP edition

So happy that FoA are going to sell it here for $30k! [SAME PRICE HERE AS A 2012 JEEP CHEROKEE.....IT CAN BE DONE!!!1]

[RASER]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I agree that the Territory is selling well because of the Diesel. I think most Australians have been swayed by the Diesel story. A Falcon Diesel, in my mind, would likely be a better seller than the Ecoboost Falcon. But it's too late for that now.

At the time the EB was seen as a good idea by FoA.....only! [Tax grab]

Total NONSENSE FoA, how can a 4cyl that is hardly any more economical than a simple old and great Aussie built/engineered/proven non-complex IL6 been a good idea...wtf?

Sales have proved, its a total failure, as in that $40 million blown on the supercharged V8

But yeah the 4cyl from the Jaguar diesel would have been a BRILLIANT idea and saved the Falcon, of course HQ in USA, ie FoMoCo DON'T want to save the Falcon so that idea was canned...immediatly

Its important to remember FoMoCo USA runs the show, not FoA here

[Nikked]

Facepalm.jpg



If the current Tdi engine is replaced buy a larger one, a EcoBoost could be worthwile for Thailand exports...

[MONSOON]

Since they have already done the ecoboost for the falcon sedan, I think they should put it in the falcon ute, most if not all of the work is already done. Also I think the XR6 should have it also (why not) maybe call it just XR and put G6ET lip spoiler on it instead of the regular one and put 17's on it as they seem to do with ecoboosts and ECOLpi's

[Buntz]

If it's economy you want... It would be easier to source and add an 8 speed auto to the lineup. Those extra overdrive gears for great cruising.

But also agree with jpd80. The 2.2 TDCI from the Ranger.

But I've also been considering the idea that the 4cyl in the ranger that is also used to run on CNG... could perhaps have an orbital LPi system fitted, and wouldn't have to be de-tuned like the LPi I6 was, and could be very powerful indeed. For both Falcon and Territory.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

If it's economy you want... It would be easier to source and add an 8 speed auto to the lineup. Those extra overdrive gears for great cruising.

But also agree with jpd80. The 2.2 TDCI from the Ranger.

But I've also been considering the idea that the 4cyl in the ranger that is also used to run on CNG... could perhaps have an orbital LPi system fitted, and wouldn't have to be de-tuned like the LPi I6 was, and could be very powerful indeed. For both Falcon and Territory.

But that's the problem, which product combinations to pick, easy for us because we have nothing to lose.
But when you're FoA going to head office to bankroll a future vehicle, need a sound business case ias essential,
one that require exhaustive research to weed out mirages that look good until you ask buyers to pay...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But that's the problem, which product combinations to pick, easy for us because we have nothing to lose.
But when you're FoA going to head office to bankroll a future vehicle, need a sound business case ias essential,
one that require exhaustive research to weed out mirages that look good until you ask buyers to pay...

But if they don't try...

Head office is a real pain in the neck. What kind of price can you put on knowledge?

Diesel is a no brainer. And Ford US does it's own gas engines, so a powerful 4cyl LPG engine might make for a worthwhile engineering exercise.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

But if they don't try...

Head office is a real pain in the neck. What kind of price can you put on knowledge?

Diesel is a no brainer. And Ford US does it's own gas engines, so a powerful 4cyl LPG engine might make for a worthwhile engineering exercise.

Sorry, without a proper valid business case, the money would not come. and for all we know,
Ford has indeed looked at all situations we put forward, diesel would be a big risk and what
we see as a no brainer, requires financial justification before a dollar is released to develop it
but without any empirical data to base it on, I'd say that it was considered too big
a leap of faith compared to their already chosen vehicles, EcoLPI and Ecoboost.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sorry, without a proper valid business case, the money would not come. and for all we know,
Ford has indeed looked at all situations we put forward, diesel would be a big risk and what
we see as a no brainer, requires financial justification before a dollar is released to develop it
but without any empirical data to base it on, I'd say that it was considered too big
a leap of faith compared to their already chosen vehicles, EcoLPI and Ecoboost.

If they can justify the expense of engineering EcoBoost and importing the engines from Spain and create a vehicle which doesn't appeal to fleets due to the availability of more economical EcoLpi and no wagon and doesn't appeal to 4 cylinder private buyers due to price. Yet cannot see the worth of diesel which is sitting two feet away from Falcon ute and sedan on the production line.... Honestly I think they pull these decisions out of their *** rather than having any solid business case.

[KW XRT]

I recon eco boost would be a winner for the soccer MOM.Economy and cheap rego sells no denying that.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sorry, without a proper valid business case, the money would not come. and for all we know,
Ford has indeed looked at all situations we put forward, diesel would be a big risk and what
we see as a no brainer, requires financial justification before a dollar is released to develop it
but without any empirical data to base it on, I'd say that it was considered too big
a leap of faith compared to their already chosen vehicles, EcoLPI and Ecoboost.

This is exactly the problem Bob Lutz if talking about. Letting bean counters run the show, rather than car guys.


How much would it be to just let some engineers whack in a 2.2 from the ranger into diesel terri and drive it give it to the boys at You Yangs to drive around in?

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by RASER

At the time the EB was seen as a good idea by FoA.....only! [Tax grab]

Total NONSENSE FoA, how can a 4cyl that is hardly any more economical than a simple old and great Aussie built/engineered/proven non-complex IL6 been a good idea...wtf?

Sales have proved, its a total failure, as in that $40 million blown on the supercharged V8

But yeah the 4cyl from the Jaguar diesel would have been a BRILLIANT idea and saved the Falcon, of course HQ in USA, ie FoMoCo DON'T want to save the Falcon so that idea was canned...immediatly

Its important to remember FoMoCo USA runs the show, not FoA here

In the large sedan market, petrol still outsells diesel.

Doing the EcoBoost Falcon was an abosutely sound business decision because it combines 4 cylinder economy and 6 cylinder power. 8.1L/100km is significantly less than 9.9L/100km, but it doesn't give much away to the six in terms of performance, if at all.

No way would diesel have saved Falcon. It'd be the answer to a question nobody asked. Just because diesel worked for the Territory doesn't necessarily mean it'll work for the Falcon. They're different cars designed for different markets.

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by MONSOON

Since they have already done the ecoboost for the falcon sedan, I think they should put it in the falcon ute, most if not all of the work is already done. Also I think the XR6 should have it also (why not) maybe call it just XR and put G6ET lip spoiler on it instead of the regular one and put 17's on it as they seem to do with ecoboosts and ECOLpi's

XR4? Yeah I wouldn't mind a XR without the rear wing, I much prefer lip spoilers. It is a good visual point of difference. Also I think it's a mistake to not rename G6.

[Franco Cozzo]

I don't know why people are so concerned with "payback periods" in a lard-*** SUV and how LPG makes more sense than diesel in $$$ wise.

The average person does like 25,000km a year if that, the only person who should really be worried about fuel costs are the people who do a crapload of kilometers like taxi operators etc as fuel probably won't be your biggest cost, you've got rego, insurance, servicing etc.

Diesel is king in 4x4 and SUV and the low down torque is the main selling point.

In my case I had a choice of 2L 4 cylinder petrol or 2L 4 cylinder turbo diesel and I thought I'd give diesel a go, didn't even test drive either of them.

Now no way in hell am I going back to those boat anchors with spark plugs, I don't give a rats *** about servicing costs, diesel is much nicer to drive.

I spend most of my day driving the speed limit in my car, which is 100km/h, I'm not sitting on 4000 RPM plus to exploit my peak torque figure, so diesel makes sense for me, I'm sitting at 1750 RPM at 100km/h in 6th for a good 50km of my journey to work, cruising up hills without issue because I'm sitting pretty much on the start of my peak torque which is a nice 320nm.

Its like I saw the light in the automotive world, born again diesel enthusiast.

[Kayos]

Options and especially 4cyl ones are always good in this market, if it was advertised it would sell very well. The Terri and Fg's should have been ecoboosted a long way back.. not that I'd like one but maybe one day for a daily

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

This is exactly the problem Bob Lutz if talking about. Letting bean counters run the show, rather than car guys.


How much would it be to just let some engineers whack in a 2.2 from the ranger into diesel terri and drive it give it to the boys at You Yangs to drive around in?

It would be rejected for the same reason the Ranger 3.2 I5 diesel was rejected for Territory, its not refined enough for a passenger car application. Its ok for a commercial application like Ranger, but the ones they tested for Territory were considered not refined enough for that sort of application, being predomanantly a passenger vehicle for families.

The Ranger SUV will use it though, but considering the Prado etc are rough as guts 4 cylinder turbo diesels worse than the Rangers then it will be considered acceptable. I know from experience, my dad has a new Prado TD and its a very unrefined engine.

[Yellow_Festiva]

While not the same type of vehicle the Amarok is only a 2l diesel that, from memory has a little more torque but much less power low in the rev range. Seems to sell just fine, and the engine endows it with a decent towing capacity.

I think a 2l EB would be ok as an optional engine in Territory. Depends on if there is a chance the R&D costs will be recovered for such a small market.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I don't know why people are so concerned with "payback periods" in a lard-*** SUV and how LPG makes more sense than diesel in $$$ wise.

The average person does like 25,000km a year if that, the only person who should really be worried about fuel costs are the people who do a crapload of kilometers like taxi operators etc as fuel probably won't be your biggest cost, you've got rego, insurance, servicing etc.

Diesel is king in 4x4 and SUV and the low down torque is the main selling point.

In my case I had a choice of 2L 4 cylinder petrol or 2L 4 cylinder turbo diesel and I thought I'd give diesel a go, didn't even test drive either of them.

Now no way in hell am I going back to those boat anchors with spark plugs, I don't give a rats *** about servicing costs, diesel is much nicer to drive.

I spend most of my day driving the speed limit in my car, which is 100km/h, I'm not sitting on 4000 RPM plus to exploit my peak torque figure, so diesel makes sense for me, I'm sitting at 1750 RPM at 100km/h in 6th for a good 50km of my journey to work, cruising up hills without issue because I'm sitting pretty much on the start of my peak torque which is a nice 320nm.

Its like I saw the light in the automotive world, born again diesel enthusiast.

Take the Turbo off your diesel and you would have a different opinion,
To my knowledge the ecoboost is the first time a petrol gets developed with a Turbo in the interest of economy.
Petrol is quieter (especially with turbo) and has a larger powerband.
Deliver a petrol with low down torque and ecconmy and you have the best of both worlds

[Vesper Martini]

Then whack LPG on it and you have a winner
ECOBoost LPI

[2011G6E]

Great idea...but it wouldn't be welcomed by the people living in the dark ages whose answer to everything is "put a V8 in it bro" and who wear a massive set of blinders when it comes to the way modern engines have advanced...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Take the Turbo off your diesel and you would have a different opinion,
To my knowledge the ecoboost is the first time a petrol gets developed with a Turbo in the interest of economy.
Petrol is quieter (especially with turbo) and has a larger powerband.
Deliver a petrol with low down torque and ecconmy and you have the best of both worlds

VW has been doing it for a few years though so its not the first.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Great idea...but it wouldn't be welcomed by the people living in the dark ages whose answer to everything is "put a V8 in it bro" and who wear a massive set of blinders when it comes to the way modern engines have advanced...

Their money is as good as anyone elses.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Then whack LPG on it and you have a winner
ECOBoost LPI

i don`t think it will happen, a lot of r&d $$$$$$$ involved in making an lpg injected turbo for the masses i would imagine, probably for little return i suspect, i know a few privateers have done it, but how they go long term durability is another question.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

VW has been doing it for a few years though so its not the first.

Ok, whats the engine, & what car is it?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by mik

i don`t think it will happen, a lot of r&d $$$$$$$ involved in making an lpg injected turbo for the masses i would imagine, probably for little return i suspect, i know a few privateers have done it, but how they go long term durability is another question.

I agree, Sadly most likely not, Its taking ford soo long to get the EcoBoost Falcon on the sales yard.
And there are too many doomsayers with LPG that have biased opinions they formed years ago. And as you say leaving it to the privateers to develop systems.

durability.. one word. Taxi

[mad cow]

the hire/taxi/fleet market would jump at an ecoboost 2.0 territory..

but then they would also go for a diesel falcon.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Ok, whats the engine, & what car is it?

VW Golf/Jetta with their TSI series engines, supercharged and turbo.

VW Polo TSI 1.2L engine is turbo for fuel efficiency and is exempted for P platers in Victoria.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

VW Golf/Jetta with their TSI series engines, supercharged and turbo.

VW Polo TSI 1.2L engine is turbo for fuel efficiency and is exempted for P platers in Victoria.

But did 'TSI' come out before Ford's 'EcoBoost'?