Ford vows to fight on after July shutdown

[stevz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

..............an economic improvement to come, that is most likely going to happen in the second half of 2012

You must be living in lala land! It's going to get much worse before it gets any better and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to get better anytime soon.

[RspecAU]

I think it's about time Ford dropped some of the deadwood from the C.E.O's down and add a better range of cars. For to long now Ford have remained the "Family" car and have dropped the ball in the prformence market.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stevz

You must be living in lala land! It's going to get much worse before it gets any better and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to get better anytime soon.

The economy is actually getting better...

There's a lot of evidence that if things become worse in Europe, money will flow out into safe havens,
the main one being the USA but also now it appears that Australia is becoming an option.

[anto]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Falcon is a answer to a question no one is asking.

It was the answer I was looking for...and then some

[anto]

Originally Posted by TRUBLU4DS

Sales are down due to their crap marketing & I also commented when the FG was
released that it would be the death of Falcon because its an ugly car.

Maybe they should put you in charge .......such amazing foresight

[Bossxr8]

It still won't solve the uncertainty because we already know they will stay open till 2016, its what happens after that that everyone is questioning.

The thing is that if Falcon sales continue to decline how is it going to be viable to spend half a billion+ to make a new one, unless they can find an export market, or ditch the Falcon and build new Mondeo or something like that if they can do it on the cheap.

What could they replace the Territory with if they built Mondeo, is there anything on the new Mondeos platform that will be an SUV, like Edge?

[JPFS1]

Bossxr8, ill give you my opinion, and that's all it is. At this point there are no guarantees for manufacturing after the next major update.

A few things to note, one ford is achieved in many ways and it not all about platform sharing. to share a platform in its most fundamental meaning can really only be achieved when all vehicles on that platform are designed from the get go, and plants all designed to be able to manufacture them. That's major investment but major savings too.

So that's the platform side of things, then there's commonality which can be achieved across platforms, still good savings to be made and reduces the overall r & d by reducing unique power train, suspension, and engineering requirements.

So this is where my opinion starts, 2 scenarios;

1, post 2016 falcon will remain and be manufactured here, but aligning much more with the global technologies, common engineering and common sub systems.

2, global platform alongside Lincoln and perhaps mustang, manufacturing of falcon under pressure of needing to move to a new state of the art plant in APA and exported to our regions, fordNA plants to supply Europe and the USA. Ford Australia still heavily involved in development and engineering and may even own the program.

I know of certain things relating to post 2016, buts they're just pieces of a puzzle at the moment with no definite answers, but what we do know is that performance enthusiasts of rwd sedans will still be accommodated.

[Polyal]

Ill put money on number two!

BTW, please dont tell me the new Territory ICC is an example of One Ford helping us out!

[neptune blue]

Ford shot its self in the head when they killed off the GT and the V8 a few years later where Holden kept their performance car program and V8 going

Then Ford made their biggest mistake the AU and has never recovered
Holden coincidently designed one of their prettiest cars the VT at the same time

You only need to look at the AU XR models with their glued on bits of plastic on the doors & bumpers compared to the integrated styling of the VT HSV club sport
Hell I even bought one !

The re introduction of the GT has been unsuccessful as the "througher bread blood line " has been broken and even though the current model isn't a bad looking bus (although I don't like the blackouts on the GT) I feel that a lot of buyers perceive the current range of FPV vehicles were created by a bunch of guys in lab coats holding clip boards and dont associate it with the muscle car brutality of the past GT's
My last 3 cars have been a VT club sport, Monaro CV8R and VE R8 For that reason

My XB coupe reminds me of how the Market leader in Australia used to build cars
Unfortunatley unless a miracle happens and sales of the falcon go through the roof , much to our dismay the falcon is dead

How the other models will fair purely depends on one thing ....sales

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Bossxr8, ill give you my opinion, and that's all it is. At this point there are no guarantees for manufacturing after the next major update.

A few things to note, one ford is achieved in many ways and it not all about platform sharing. to share a platform in its most fundamental meaning can really only be achieved when all vehicles on that platform are designed from the get go, and plants all designed to be able to manufacture them. That's major investment but major savings too.

So that's the platform side of things, then there's commonality which can be achieved across platforms, still good savings to be made and reduces the overall r & d by reducing unique power train, suspension, and engineering requirements.

So this is where my opinion starts, 2 scenarios;

1, post 2016 falcon will remain and be manufactured here, but aligning much more with the global technologies, common engineering and common sub systems.

2, global platform alongside Lincoln and perhaps mustang, manufacturing of falcon under pressure of needing to move to a new state of the art plant in APA and exported to our regions, fordNA plants to supply Europe and the USA. Ford Australia still heavily involved in development and engineering and may even own the program.

I know of certain things relating to post 2016, buts they're just pieces of a puzzle at the moment with no definite answers, but what we do know is that performance enthusiasts of rwd sedans will still be accommodated.

To me that sound's like there is a lot of positives to be had out of your post.
I havn't delved to much into any of the other negative thread's about 2016 and beyond becuase I believe that it will all come to fruition, and Ford Aus is well and truly capable to be strong in this country with the people we have behind them.

[Franco Cozzo]

Things can always change, we don't know what will happen tomorrow, let alone 4 years from now.

[Road_Warrior]

I think the only way option 1) can be supported is if extra volume can be found to justify the investment and ensure an acceptable return on that investment within the projected lifespan of the program. So this means more than one vehicle off that platform AND an export plan.

On current sales volumes, there is no way Ford could support a business plan for an all new Falcon unless it was shared with another volume seller (and I'm not talking about the Territory either) and it had overseas markets.

That said, I don't think option 2 would happen (co-locating manufacture of all platform variants in one newplant) because the build costs would be huge and it seems that Ford's current practice seems to be distributing the manufacturing responsibility across the regions (Americas, FAPA, UK & Europe) so that they can supply that region.

Not to mention the fact that, after a flurry of shuttering assembly plants and component manufacturing facilities globally both pre and during the GFC, none have been closed for a few years. It does seem odd that if FoA is indeed such a lame duck as the haters claim, Dearborn seems very reluctant to make any hasty moves about it and for all intents and purposes, would have been shut by now, or at the very least, we'd know about its closure date by now a-la the on again off again engine plant closure saga from 2007.

[69Mach1]

When reading this article I couldn't help thinking that it read a bit like a 'dooms day" prediction written say 35 years ago. It's hard to believe this is the cold reality. Back then you would have dismissed it as pure fiction and believed Ford would never let that happen....

[TMC]

Chrysler seems to be making all these modern takes on 1970's classics(Challenger). How about a modern take on the XB Coupe but with a killer V8? Try and spice up the Falcon range a bit. It's obvious fleets aren't buying and neither are private buyers excited by Camrys.

[Magna]

why doesn't Ford get back to basics and start looking after its customers? thats one of the reasons i'm considering anything other than Ford when my lease is up at the end of the year

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

Holden coincidently designed one of their prettiest cars the VT at the same time

I don't think I'm one eyed (I had a VL turbo back in the day and still think it's a nice looking car) but I think the VT has to be one of the most featureless at best, dog ugly at worst of all the Commodores and Falcons we've ever seen.

The AU sold poorly, which I think was more your point, but I think it looks better now than it did then, it was just too much change for the conservative fans.

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

I don't think I'm one eyed (I had a VL turbo back in the day and still think it's a nice looking car) but I think the VT has to be one of the most featureless at best, dog ugly at worst of all the Commodores and Falcons we've ever seen.

The AU sold poorly, which I think was more your point, but I think it looks better now than it did then, it was just too much change for the conservative fans.

You can bag the VT all you want but you can't bag the sales figures ( most popular Holden since the HQ)
The VT spawned the rebirth of the Monaro
The general dominated the market for years
I happened to get an industry invite to the Sydney motor show when the commodore coupe was unveiled
You shoulld have seen the look on the faces of the execs at the ford stand when the cover came off
Crushed doesn't come close to describing them

Please the AU forte ....can't tell if it's moving backwards or forwards . The problem is that it was too conservative a departure from the natural ford styling that evolves from model to model

I was all revved up waiting for it to be released so I could by an XR8 until I saw it a slug with a double winged boot spoiler? ...come on
Ordered a vt club sport with leather , sun roof in raven mica the same day

I thought I would always drive a ford but have owned 3 Holden's since 1999 unfortunatley for ford I'm not the only one

Sorry but you can't argue with the numbers
I realy do hope ford can turn it around but sadly I think our falcon will be no more

[Shonky.]

Justin Beiber might sell a lot of records, doesn't make that **** good

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ill put money on number two!

BTW, please dont tell me the new Territory ICC is an example of One Ford helping us out!

Considering the new territory ICC is a local designed product, how do you figure it is part of "One Ford"??

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

Then Ford made their biggest mistake the AU and has never recovered
Holden coincidently designed one of their prettiest cars the VT at the same time

Minor correction, Holden didn't design the VT they modded the Opel Omega design with local nose/tail/dash http://world-viewer.com/data_images/...l-omega-04.jpg

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

People have short memories. Many years before January 2012 when the article in the OP was written, Ford announced a 1.8 BILLION dollar investment package in Australia which would coincidentally take them through to the end of 2016... so infact, even in 2006, FoA committed to Australia for the next 10 years, why should they be expected to come clean and give the game away for post 2016 plans?

Problem is it's far more sensational to print doom and gloom. My only criticism of local management is that while they can't/shouldn't divulge future plans, they could very clearly reiterate some of the points you have made above and in a more forceful manner then past attempts because it's not coming through "on the street".

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

You can bag the VT all you want but you can't bag the sales figures ( most popular Holden since the HQ)
The VT spawned the rebirth of the Monaro
The general dominated the market for years
I happened to get an industry invite to the Sydney motor show when the commodore coupe was unveiled
You shoulld have seen the look on the faces of the execs at the ford stand when the cover came off
Crushed doesn't come close to describing them

Please the AU forte ....can't tell if it's moving backwards or forwards . The problem is that it was too conservative a departure from the natural ford styling that evolves from model to model

I was all revved up waiting for it to be released so I could by an XR8 until I saw it a slug with a double winged boot spoiler? ...come on
Ordered a vt club sport with leather , sun roof in raven mica the same day

I thought I would always drive a ford but have owned 3 Holden's since 1999 unfortunatley for ford I'm not the only one

Sorry but you can't argue with the numbers
I realy do hope ford can turn it around but sadly I think our falcon will be no more

Is this the Hulk_ in disguise ?.

[neptune blue]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

Justin Beiber might sell a lot of records, doesn't make that **** good

But it does make him rich as he has successfully targeted the market segment
Something that ford used to do very well
We all agree that ford has lost their way as their main product the falcon is not popular with the large car, rear wheel drive market , the question is are they able to turn it around

[RspecAU]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Bossxr8, ill give you my opinion, and that's all it is. At this point there are no guarantees for manufacturing after the next major update.

A few things to note, one ford is achieved in many ways and it not all about platform sharing. to share a platform in its most fundamental meaning can really only be achieved when all vehicles on that platform are designed from the get go, and plants all designed to be able to manufacture them. That's major investment but major savings too.

So that's the platform side of things, then there's commonality which can be achieved across platforms, still good savings to be made and reduces the overall r & d by reducing unique power train, suspension, and engineering requirements.

So this is where my opinion starts, 2 scenarios;

1, post 2016 falcon will remain and be manufactured here, but aligning much more with the global technologies, common engineering and common sub systems.

2, global platform alongside Lincoln and perhaps mustang, manufacturing of falcon under pressure of needing to move to a new state of the art plant in APA and exported to our regions, fordNA plants to supply Europe and the USA. Ford Australia still heavily involved in development and engineering and may even own the program.

I know of certain things relating to post 2016, buts they're just pieces of a puzzle at the moment with no definite answers, but what we do know is that performance enthusiasts of rwd sedans will still be accommodated.

And will those preformence cars still have parts that fail like the BA-BF this is where Ford are failing and not being able to sell cars that for 80k plus should be the most reliable car on the road.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

So this is where my opinion starts, 2 scenarios;

1, post 2016 falcon will remain and be manufactured here, but aligning much more with the global technologies, common engineering and common sub systems.

2, global platform alongside Lincoln and perhaps mustang, manufacturing of falcon under pressure of needing to move to a new state of the art plant in APA and exported to our regions, fordNA plants to supply Europe and the USA. Ford Australia still heavily involved in development and engineering and may even own the program..

Or the never talked about option 3, which is a locally assembled Taurus or Mondeo. Using the One Ford program to integrate the car into the global plan but assembeld here. Whilst not ideal, is not the complete doomsday scenario either.

Note: I'm just a punter so I have no actual knowledge of what they will do.

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I................ but what we do know is that performance enthusiasts of rwd sedans will still be accommodated.

Very interesting...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by neptune blue

You can bag the VT all you want but you can't bag the sales figures ( most popular Holden since the HQ)
The VT spawned the rebirth of the Monaro
The general dominated the market for years
I happened to get an industry invite to the Sydney motor show when the commodore coupe was unveiled
You shoulld have seen the look on the faces of the execs at the ford stand when the cover came off
Crushed doesn't come close to describing them

Please the AU forte ....can't tell if it's moving backwards or forwards . The problem is that it was too conservative a departure from the natural ford styling that evolves from model to model

I was all revved up waiting for it to be released so I could by an XR8 until I saw it a slug with a double winged boot spoiler? ...come on
Ordered a vt club sport with leather , sun roof in raven mica the same day

I thought I would always drive a ford but have owned 3 Holden's since 1999 unfortunatley for ford I'm not the only one

Sorry but you can't argue with the numbers
I realy do hope ford can turn it around but sadly I think our falcon will be no more

Yeah you can't argue with sales numbers. Just ask Mazda with its record selling Mazda 3 how market leadership turns into profit (or should I say lack of) now that they're billions in debt globally.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by RspecAU

And will those preformence cars still have parts that fail like the BA-BF this is where Ford are failing and not being able to sell cars that for 80k plus should be the most reliable car on the road.

I have a work supplied VE CaliasV 6.0 that ran out of brake on 3 seperate occasions and was told by Holden that there was nothing wrong with it. After I crashed it (minor fender bender only) they put a new master cylender in it.

Drama's with 6 speed auto's, flickeing gauges. Dont believe the grass is greener.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Considering the new territory ICC is a local designed product, how do you figure it is part of "One Ford"??

One Ford is about reducing vehicle costs, the bulk of those savings are achieved at the supplier level:
V6 diesel
6R80 transmission
ICU and electrical wiring
Other parts from FAPA supply chain...

[flappist]

Falcon, like most things goes through evolution and revolution.

XA was a revolution that evolved into XB & XC.
XE was a revolution that went on to XE & XF.
EA through the E series
AU to BF.

FG was a "half revolution" from the BF and if it only survives until 2016 will have lasted 8 years as opposed to 7 years for XA, 9 years for XD, 10 years for EA and 10 years for AU.

Each of these "generations" has been a huge leap forward in technology, performance and safety.

I am fairly confident that 2016/17 will just be the next generation of Falcon.

[jpd80]

Or you could argue that XA, EA and AU were all revolutions
and that XA-XF, EA-EL and AU-FG were evolutions on the same basic floor pan and drive line

And since FoA blurrs the lines with lots of carry over items evolved at different time lines,
one man's evolution is another man's revolution....