New Holden adds-sign of desperation?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by asusdragon

the other problem i really got agianst Holden adverts at the monent is they are going very american, ie instead of selling there product they pretty much make and ad bagging out the territories, coz it doesnt have a diesel option yet. sell your product all you like just dont make ads crapping on bout how crap a different product is

Those Captiva advertisements irritate me as well, particularly because I'm a Territory owner myself and don't like the idea of Holden comparing it to a Korean imported Daewoo. It is, however, a smart move on Holden's part and seems to be working. Last time I checked, the Captiva wasn't terribly far behind the Territory in sales, selling around 900+ per month if my memory serves me correctly. I've also seen a fair few about on the roads.

In regards to Holden's latest and greatest campaign, I'm impressed. The ad was put together well, and the timing (a couple of weeks out from FG's release) is impeccable. Is it desperation? I don't think so. Holden are just going about their business in a competitive market.

I'm hoping that Ford has managed to put together a campaign that can match the FG for excellence.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by asusdragon

i also want to know with holden ute ad "evolution ends here" are they not making any more utes now??? maybe not the best slogan ever i think.

Have to agree there. Heard that on the radio the other day and assumed that will be the last ute they'll be doing.... unless they plan never to make their utes any better, which would mean Ford may have one up?

I know it's bs, but heh, wrong slogan I think also..

[broken_suave]

I've noticed Ford have a half decent 'mid year sale' add on TV at the moment. Best I've seen in a while. Wont win any movie awards, but it shows the entire range, except for the Falcon, and explains their features and shows the price. Theres a few different variants of the add, each showing different models.

With any luck this will be the start of a more agressive and prevelant advertising campain on behalf of Ford. Bill Osbourne's influence perhaps? With any luck they'll make a decent go with advertising when the Falcon is released.

In my view they should have started their campain a month before the release.

Start out with an add no longer than 5 seconds long. A black metal textured screen with the Ford badge up the top of the screen, with the words 'New Falcon is Comming' underneath, with like an atmospheric track in the background, then a white flash going to the next add.

Progressively roll the length of the add out, adding its release date underneath New Falcon is Comming, and maybe flash to a dark sillouette of a rear shot of an XR in a dark warehouse (not showing much detail being so dark) or something, then flash back to the original screen with Ford up top, New Falcon is Comming in the middle, then release date down the bottom, then flash white into the next add.


Then when its launched, you can start the add with the dark warehouse, all silent with the sillouette of the XR, then you hear it start up its engine with a V8 rev and the tail lights and parkers come on, and you hear a few more starting up and reving in the background. The camera lifts up to see park lights and tail lights of a few more, then you hear another car start up with and rev and turbo hiss.. then they all idle for a second, until all the lights in the warehouse turn on, and they all rev loudly as the music starts and the screen is overlaid (and Narrated) with 'New Falcon', which dissapears, and there is a quick fade in: 'Is Here' and it fades to black, leaving the 'Is here' on the screen. Words fade away as you hear a V8 rev and then take off with a squeal, Leading to the black metal screen with Ford badge up top, 'new falcon' in the middle, and 'is here' down the bottom. Then maybe have the middle and bottom lines fade out and replaced with whatever fords new slogan is. something like a Ford badge up the top, and then 'Better than Ever' underneath.

I dont know if that made sense to anyone, but I know if I could produce the add I would. Hopefully intriguing people at first, and slowly drawing them in. Then when you launch full add, the day you launch the car, every one pays attention to the add when it comes on.

Seriously, I need a job in advertising.

[HSE2]

It is a great pre emptive strike against FG. If my ears are fibbing I think I heard that they were introducing V8 cylinder deactivation this year??? Was that right????

If so it’s a bit of a clue to the rest of Holden’s 60th party.

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by HSE2

It is a great pre emptive strike against FG. If my ears are fibbing I think I heard that they were introducing V8 cylinder deactivation this year??? Was that right????

If so it’s a bit of a clue to the rest of Holden’s 60th party.

Yes, DOD Aug/Sep (already in G8 so just a matter of marketing deciding when is most beneficial time to capture the press, when is Ford next big event, thats when Holden will steal the limelight) and VF due in April next year, may catch up/suparse FG, so Ford has 9 months to make hay (it'll take that long for Ford marketing to figure out which way to point the camera). Comeon Ford get your act together, building a great car isn't the end of the job.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by BadMac

Yes, DOD Aug/Sep (already in G8 so just a matter of marketing deciding when is most beneficial time to capture the press, when is Ford next big event, thats when Holden will steal the limelight) and VF due in April next year, may catch up/suparse FG, so Ford has 9 months to make hay (it'll take that long for Ford marketing to figure out which way to point the camera). Comeon Ford get your act together, building a great car isn't the end of the job.

Holden will need that time just to get their interiors up to scratch. I know you aren't the biggest fan but thankfully you are in the minority on this point. Even the press have got this one right.

The V6 will be hard to fix but the rest should be easy. More rigid starting point will make suspension fine tuning a relatively straight forward process. Design wise there are now obvious clues that will rectify what shouldn’t have been made in the first place.

[csv8]

In Holdens add they say "a range of diesel cars is being developed and yes the do mention V8 cylinder de-activation, like the 300C" again FORD is behind the eight ball.
Lets hope Mr T comes up to the plate and strikes a few home runs.
Holden are bringing out the ESTATE in all levels and with a V8[B]FORD had better market the FG correctly or thats all folks.

[zigzagnt]

Apparently holden fans find the ads tacky and stupid as well (so a mate tells me).

[Powdered Toast Man]

The cylinder deactivation on the 6.0L has been around for years in the US versions. Holden are just going to start using it. They are deliberately making cars technologically inferior to what they should be.

Can't say the Holden ad makes me want to buy a Holden but I can see how it would look good to the majority who are uninformed and not technically minded as to know, understand, or even care who makes the car or how well it is engineered.

Ford do have a new slogan, it's on the double page ad in the latest Wheels mag. It's so memorable I can't remember what it is lol.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

The cylinder deactivation on the 6.0L has been around for years in the US versions. Holden are just going to start using it. They are deliberately making cars technologically inferior to what they should be.

Can't say the Holden ad makes me want to buy a Holden but I can see how it would look good to the majority who are uninformed and not technically minded as to know, understand, or even care who makes the car or how well it is engineered.

Ford do have a new slogan, it's on the double page ad in the latest Wheels mag. It's so memorable I can't remember what it is lol.

Wasn't displacement on demand canned in the US models....... something about too costly to develop?

[GTP290]

Geez, Im pretty happy I posted a new thread and had 50 responses, thats a PB for me ehehe.

[DanielXR8]

I thought the same as you, that they were a sign of a company struggling. I don't think it is necessarily because of the FG Falcon either, although I am sure that was considered with the timing of the new ads. The market is changing and the Holden brand (like Ford) is on the nose with a lot of potential customers.

If the FG doesn't sell well, expect a similar effort from Ford. None of the other cars in the Ford catalogue, are exactly best sellers and the excuses for Mondeo are wearing thin.

Dan

[ltd]

Wally, you avoid questions and instead replace it with twaddle. You don't seem to have any sense of literal comprehension and gloss over salient points with cliche's such as "You're emotional". You have no objectivity whatsoever and decrying the FG on a ford forum for the sake of the oppositions car is an insurmountable challenge that only the intellectually bereft would attempt. Good luck, party on.

[Wally]

So now I'm intellectually bereft, at which point I'm supposed to object and prove my credentials or respond with a similar act of imnpolitness no doubt.

What can I type that will make you feel better? Although I haven't seen one in the flesh the FG is far superior to anything else on the market? Although my opinions are based on my collective thoughts, they are wrongs and the FG is far superior and better looking than anything else on the market? I have been a bad boy and didn't seek permission form the members to air my observations? I have betrayed all that is good and honest by purchasing the embodiment of eveil that manifest itself as the VE Holden? I have no right to be a member of this forum, even though I have owned several models and am currently doing up an XP coupe, even posting the progress pics when I could just hoarde the ideas?

What exactly is it that you bring to the table that is productive? Tell me a bit about yourself and how you actually strip and build ford engines, gearboxes, diffs, suspensions, etc in youyr spare time like I do. Not send then to a mechanic, but actually do the nachining, assembly and commissioing. Tell me how many cars outside the Ford family you have similarlly completely overhauled like I have to give you such a focused perspective that Ford product is the be all and end all. Tell me how my thrity odd years of buying and usuing $1000 micrometers, bore gauges, lathes, milling machines, electrical instuments etc makes me less inclined to make correct observations than you.

You remind me of a fellow on another forum who took one of the old codgers to task over his auto knowledge. He like you knew everything that sprang from the fountain of goodness and let the old fart know it in no uncertain terms, calling him for being an intellectural retard when it came to ECU's. Patiently the venerable fossil waited then let the upstart in on the facts... he was the bloke who developed the OBD1 computer for GM, he was one of the guys who developed the computer systems for the Apollo projects. So when you resort to name calling I feel I'm in good company sitting back reading your diatribe.

[vanman_75]

holden have a much bigger following regardless off any facts of 'better car ' 'all australian ' bla bla bla . their adds work for them .we should take notice of that and get some market back. most on this forum are diehard ford ,but i can appreciate how good a holden is ,and not buy 1 ! . austalia does need both h & f so we get a better car, if there was only 1 they got nothing to compete and better their product. both cars are awesome bfyb we should be greatfull .

[ltd]

Wally, reread your post and see if you can't find the hypocrisy of your assertions.
You're judging others on what they haven't seen, yet you have made generalised statements based on what you haven't seen.
This is hypocrisy, this is an unsteady foundation to base an argument.
As for your knowledge of engineering, I don't believe I have criticised you for that.
I don't particularly care for your knowledge in engineering, to me it isn't relevant to this debate. You're doing up an XP, good for you. How does this relate to the FG? It doesn't. You assume I know less than you on many fronts and frankly, that is in itself insulting. If you knew what I do and the wealth of specific knowledge I need to do it you may be less hasty to critique.

On your purchase, if you like your 6 litre then that's excellent. If you don't like the FG then that's excellent too. But there are a lot of excited people who don't need their objectivity questioned by someone who within the anonymity of the internet indirectly derides what they have deemed as a wise purchase. Furthermore whilst it is implied that yours is only an opinion there is an absolution in your writing style. This is what I interpret as criticism, and no, I won't stand for blind criticism of Ford when you have even admitted to not seeing it in the flesh. That is why I took issue with your post, and take issue with others who post similarly. Criticism yes, baseless criticism no.
You'll note that I have not criticised anything Holden (such a the 6 litre) without experiencing it or without readily and quantifiably available facts. I did criticise the LS1 because I had one car but went through 3 engines in less than 45K.
Finally I won't defend the indefensible, but will question those of an opinion different to mine that isn't one of experience or exposure to the facts.

[GTP290]

Two big facts I find suprising that most people dont know, is that the FX Holden was designed in Detroit and not in Australia as most people think. The second fact is that it was the Ford motor company that manufactured the first ute. Why is it that the Holden ute is seen as an iconic aussie car and not a Ford ute, especially as Ford never ditched the ute as Holden did for nearly a decade.

[VZKOOP]

Great thread........
There seemed to be a slight variance in the flux capacitor that caused 2 of the members to postulate over the virtues, or lack there of, of the VE and FG. Funny thing is though the thread seemed to be about the advertising campaign that Holden were currently running and whether or not it meant they are desperate - that is worried about the imminent release of the FG model Falcon and it's derivatives.

Errrrr - no would be my conclusion. I would say they are doing what any competitor would do in an open and free market space. That is - try to pursuade Mr & Mrs Average that they should buy a Holden. The use of images and emotional language such as Holdens Go Better was, likely, cleverly thought up by someone who drives a Euro Uber-saloon and couldn't care less about Holden but who is paid vast sums of money to come up with slogans that may convince the public to give their cash to the company for which the slogan now belongs. With these vast sums of money the advertising agent will now go off on a well deserved holiday and think about a new slogan he/she can extract more mountainous volumes of folding stuff from the tampon company he/she also does business with. And somewhere on a tampon forum someone will ask the question - Do you think Carefree are getting desperate with their new advertising campaign? And the Tampax users will vent over the less than adequate applicator that Carefree have provided in their poor quality product etc etc

:

[red_hotxr6]

Any one notice that the new Holden adds are now actually about the car itself.??? Wonder why??? :

[GTP290]

Originally Posted by red_hotxr6

Any one notice that the new Holden adds are now actually about the car itself.??? Wonder why??? :

Call me stupid, but I dont get it?

[tapeworm]

Originally Posted by gtp 2003

Two big facts I find suprising that most people dont know, is that the FX Holden was designed in Detroit and not in Australia as most people think. The second fact is that it was the Ford motor company that manufactured the first ute. Why is it that the Holden ute is seen as an iconic aussie car and not a Ford ute, especially as Ford never ditched the ute as Holden did for nearly a decade.

Spewin' about this too, people of the public will most likely tell you that Holden invented the ute. Their image and perception rules supreme again.

[Need_a_V8]

Originally Posted by gtp 2003

Two big facts I find suprising that most people dont know, is that the FX Holden was designed in Detroit and not in Australia as most people think. The second fact is that it was the Ford motor company that manufactured the first ute. Why is it that the Holden ute is seen as an iconic aussie car and not a Ford ute, especially as Ford never ditched the ute as Holden did for nearly a decade.

1.) The 48-215 (FX) began life as the Project 2000. It then evolved into the Project 2200 of which several variants existed. Holden engineers were sent to Detroit with their styling models, drawings and engineering ideas in 1946. They started work on the design proposal and received instructions on setting up the manufacturing operation. The team produced three handmade working prototypes which were almost identical to the final production 48-215. In late 1946 the three cars were shipped to Fishermans Bend, accompanied by the Australian design team and 22 US technicians. The 3 original prototypes were tested throughout 1947 around melbourne before 10 more prototypes are built on the production line at Fishermans bend to clear the line for full scale production. So depending on how you look at it... It was either designed here in Australia (project 2000 and 2200) or the final variation was chosen/designed in the US...but by AUSTRALIAN designers. Either way, it is an Australian design.

2.) Technically Holden built the first ute mate, 10 years before Ford. Holden Coach Works made utes (named 'roadster pickups') from 1924, designing these bodies for Chevrolet and Dodge cars. Ford made their first ute in 1934 (bla bla the request from the victorian farmers wife story).

Here is a picture of one of the first utes... This is a 'stanard utility' based on a Chevrolet. It was built in 1925 by Sydney Body Builders:

[colossus]

Originally Posted by Need_a_V8

Those 20 inch spoked rims with low profile tyres look hot! Just need revulcanising and would look even sweeter.

[TERMINATOR X]

Originally Posted by colossus

Those 20 inch spoked rims with low profile tyres look hot! Just need revulcanising and would look even sweeter.

Whats with the PIC above? Would'nt mind those rims thoe...

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by colossus

Those 20 inch spoked rims with low profile tyres look hot! Just need revulcanising and would look even sweeter.

Vintage cars' wheels were around 25 inch.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by gtp 2003

Two big facts I find suprising that most people dont know, is that the FX Holden was designed in Detroit and not in Australia as most people think. The second fact is that it was the Ford motor company that manufactured the first ute. Why is it that the Holden ute is seen as an iconic aussie car and not a Ford ute, especially as Ford never ditched the ute as Holden did for nearly a decade.

The Falcon name is the longest running nameplate in Australia. The Falcon has many firsts contrary to what Holden will have you believe. Infact, Falcon has more heritage in Australia than Holden do. Ford should make a point of this and advertise it. This is what was told to me the the FG launch at a Perth dealership.

Having driven a VE Calais V and the new G6ET, the G6ET win hands down compared to Holden's equivalent model in many fronts; handling, performance, economy and ergonomics. The G6ET imo is the Force 6 at a cheaper price but higher standard. As I've stated in another thread the G6ET is a real 'killer in a cardigan'. Anyone who drives one would agree.

Where it's success will lie though is Ford Oz's ability to communicate this and to get punters into the drivers seat. The car will sell itself.

Holden have launched a good advertising campaign to counter the impeding release of the FG. I believe they are worried as they should be. The FG is a technically superior car.

I'll watch with interest to see how Ford's sales go after the honeymoon period expires.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by M6 XR6T

The Falcon name is the longest running nameplate in Australia. The Falcon has many firsts contrary to what Holden will have you believe. Infact, Falcon has more heritage in Australia than Holden do. Ford should make a point of this and advertise it. This is what was told to me the the FG launch at a Perth dealership.

................

Can you elaborate on that a bit for us? I thought the Falcon started a local life after the US dropped the range. Up until then our Falcons were basically the shape of the previous year's US offerings. Even the XP was really just a variant of the XK/XL/XM shape while they waited for the old XR tooling from the US/Canada.

e.g.

1966 US Falcon

1967 US Falcon

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by M6 XR6T

Where it's success will lie though is Ford Oz's ability to communicate this and to get punters into the drivers seat. The car will sell itself.

Ford replacing my local dealer would be a good first step in getting me into the drivers seat of the new Falcon. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that. They are the first and most serious threat the FG Falcon has for success.

Dan

[tempest]

Ive read the last page and I've laughed pretty hard at how as the 'argument' went on the attempts to 'out language' each other in order to sound smarter than the other.

You both sound like idiots, there is no need to get all intellectual on each other. To normal people both of you just sound like pompous twats...

Effective communication stems from being simple and concise... I guess both of you have never heard of jargon???

[Wally]

Originally Posted by tempest

Ive read the last page and I've laughed pretty hard at how as the 'argument' went on the attempts to 'out language' each other in order to sound smarter than the other.

You both sound like idiots, there is no need to get all intellectual on each other. To normal people both of you just sound like pompous twats...

Effective communication stems from being simple and concise... I guess both of you have never heard of jargon???

Well let me assure you I'm not a pompous twat, merely educated, a condition that afflicts a fair percentage of the population. Unfortunatley I sometimes slip into my one on one business mode and forget there's an audience. None of it relates to 'out language' anyone, if that was the case I would be using big words and have far less typos.

My apologies for the error, but if it gave you amusement then not all is lost.

On the subject at hand, the following indicates the magnitude of expediture by Ford and GM in promoting their products. It's an extract from a report by an Oz Govt department.

Expenditure by motor vehicle companies both in Australia and globally indicates that
a significant amount of their money and resources is spent on advertising. Ford’s global 2003
budget for advertising alone was reported as being $2.7 billion US (Ford Motor Company,
2003). Similarly large advertising budgets are reported by General Motors with advertising
expenses averaging $4.4 billion US annually from 2001 to 2003. To put these figures in
perspective, research and development expense averaged $5.9 billion US annually in the same
time period (General Motors Corporation, 2003). Honda has also recently spent $80 million
US in a single campaign to launch two new vehicles (Halliday, 2000). These figures suggest
that motor vehicle advertisers have considerable resources and potential to deliver their
messages to consumers.