2018 Ford Mustang GT Runs 11s in the Quarter-Mile

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by sixman

Thats incredible. Actually has me questioning my manual only obsession.

I reckon it depends on what you want to do.

Are you going to drag race a lot? The auto.

Do you enjoy 'spirited' driving on windy country roads? The manual is more engaging.

Are you going to sit in traffic all day with it? The auto!

[jpd80]

The Auto comes with paddle shifter and by all accounts upshifts and down shifts shifts bloody quick.....

if that colours the opinion any....

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The Sport pack is now available on the Auto, it changes the standard GT's 3.15 LSD to
a 3.55 LSD, along with better suspension and wider, stickier Sport Cup Tyres.
A stock GT auto with 3.15 gears would probably still run mid 12s for the 1/4 mile.



Sport pack is now 12.6 @115 but it's not apples to apples.

The manual now get a better shifter, better clutch and a new close ratio manual gearbox with
a taller 3.0:1 first and 1;1 fourth gear. The Standard GT now get a 3.55: LSD while the
Sports Pack includes the 3.73 LSD as before. The difference is that the close ratio box
makes the car feel like it has 3.15 gears in the diff - a reason why the 0-60 mph is the same
as the 2017 GT Sport Pack. After 60 mph, the car really get going and by the end of the 1/4 mile,
it gaps the older car by between 0.4 and 0.6 seconds and 2.6 seconds faster to 150 mph.

Not to dis S/C Miami Falcons but perhaps the Atmo Mustang is a lot easier to launch
and keep stuck to the track, using all of that 7500 rpm is so important to a good time.
Won't be long and the 'murricans will stick some 3.7s or even 4.11 in the Auto just for kicks.....

I often wonder about removing the limiter on the Miami so you can let it rev to the line without that pesky shift at the top of 3rd at 185ks.

The 7500 limit on the stang would be a decent advantage in time I think.

[Bossxr8]

http://www.fordnxt.com/tech-stories/...over-500-rwhp/

A few simple bolt on's, E85 and a tune and it's pushing 500 rwhp. Stock was 427 rwhp.

[solarite_guy]

That stock 427rwhp tells us a lot about the flywheel hp rating.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

That stock 427rwhp tells us a lot about the flywheel hp rating.

The efficiency of the 10 speed auto as well.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by solarite_guy

That stock 427rwhp tells us a lot about the flywheel hp rating.

We're conditioned to it here mate.
Lots of 335s running that and more at the treads, stock.

Interesting no real gains on the stang with 98. 12:1 is up there though

[Bent8]

Did some research on Ford's 10R80 10-speed auto, which was co-developed with GM

GM says their 10-speed shifts quicker than Porsche's PDK unit but no actual testing has been done to back up the claims....

"Chevrolet testing has shown the ZL1 with the available 10-speed has faster shift times than the Porsche PDK dual-clutch transmission. In fact, the 1-2 upshift is 36-percent quicker than the PDK, while the 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts are 27-percent and 26-percent quicker, respectively."

https://www.boostaddict.com/content....DK-dual-clutch

Porsche claims the PDK unit supplied by ZF shifts under 100ms in optimal conditions.

Going by this, the GM 10-speed auto shifts around 60ms (1-2) and around 70ms from 2nd through to 4th gear.

Here are the max speeds per gear (7300rpm) for the Mustang with the 3.55 diff ratio... bare in mind, 8th, 9th and 10th are theoretical speeds

1st 56, 2nd 91, 3rd 126, 4th 153, 5th 177, 6th 212, 7th 268, 8th 315, 9th 394, 10th 427

Looks like the quarter mile run is done in 6th gear meaning 5 shifts are needed. That's approx 320 milliseconds lost to shift times.

This means a car that can shift around 100ms and cover the quarter mile in 4th gear (most cars) will be quicker with the same horsepower !

Yet again, clever marketing employed by Ford to sell their 10-speed auto where they claim the Mustang has only 460hp but is making around 440rwhp on the dyno !

Think about this... if the 10-speed was such a revolutionary gearbox, why does Ford's flagship car, the Ford GT still use a 7-speed box ?

Because at the end of the day, torque is what wins the race !

This is why the Camaro ZL1 1LE did the Nurburgring run with a 6-speed manual... because when you have 881Nm on tap, you don't need 10 gears.

Sure, it probably makes more of a difference in a naturally aspirated car like the Mustang GT but the extra gears will only get you so far (pun intended)

[jpd80]

I know that you've put a lot of thought into your post but you're missing the obvious,
Why are more gear steps in the 10AT effective versus a 6AT with similar diff gearing?

Just some more Info I found,

10R80 Gear ratios Versus 6R80... observe,

1....4.69.....4.171.......1
2....2.58.....2.344.......2
3....2.14.....
4....1.76.....
5....1.52......1.521......3
6....1.27......
7....1.00......1.141......4
8....0.85......0.867......5
9....0.68......0.691......6
10..0.63

Now, given that the '18 Mustang Auto 10R80 with sports pack has 3.55 rear gears,
same as the '17 Mustang auto with 6R80... also 3.55:1 diff gears.

Advantages
1. 1st gear behaves like 6AT 1st with 3.99 gears
2. 2nd gear behaves like 6AT 2nd with 3.91 gears
3. 3rd and 4th gears fill in the gap in the 6AT between 2nd and 3rd
4. 5th gear is identical to the 6AT's 3rd gear
5. 6th gear behaves like 6AT 2nd with 3.95 gears

Bottom line,
- better smaller steps between gears that feel like lower rear end gears
-20 lb ft more torque at the bottom of the range
- More horsepower at the top of the rev range plus an extra 500 rpms.

[jpd80]

Manual Transmission

2017 GT..............2018 GT

1st...3.66..............3.01
2nd..2.43..............2.07
3rd...1.69..............1.43
4th...1.32..............1.00
5th...1.00..............0.84
6th...0.65..............0.57

The 2018 Box is Tremec TR6060 based and much better shift properties
backed up by better clutch and a nice short throw shift

With Sport pack, the manual get 3.73:1 diff gears as before, the taller gear box ratios
from 1st to 4th means that the '18 Mustang feels like a '17 Mustang with 3.15: diff gears.

In spite of that, the stronger engine manages to achieve the same 0-60 mph time as the
'17 Mustang (4.3 seconds). From there it's a no contest with the 2018 Mustang completing
the 1/4 mile in 12.6 seconds. The 2017 Mustang Manual with Sports pack and 3.73 diff gears
usually run 12.9-13.2 seconds for the 1/4 mile.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Looks like the quarter mile run is done in 6th gear meaning 5 shifts are needed. That's approx 320 milliseconds lost to shift times.

This means a car that can shift around 100ms and cover the quarter mile in 4th gear (most cars) will be quicker with the same horsepower !

Yet again, clever marketing employed by Ford to sell their 10-speed auto where they claim the Mustang has only 460hp but is making around 440rwhp on the dyno !

Think about this... if the 10-speed was such a revolutionary gearbox, why does Ford's flagship car, the Ford GT still use a 7-speed box ?

Because at the end of the day, torque is what wins the race !

This is why the Camaro ZL1 1LE did the Nurburgring run with a 6-speed manual... because when you have 881Nm on tap, you don't need 10 gears.

Sure, it probably makes more of a difference in a naturally aspirated car like the Mustang GT but the extra gears will only get you so far (pun intended)

Sorry, ran out of time to edit my post in discussing the above.
As i showed, a 6AT with 3.9s or 4.1 Gears may prove your theory correct on shift times versus the 10-speed
but then, you have a road car with less than ideal cruise gears, a compromise some would gladly accept.

Circuit racing is very different,to 1/4 mile stuff, there the manual trans is still king
for car balance, control and feel, they work so much better than an auto - no argument.

It's simply interesting to see how much of a quantum leap the 2018 Mustang is over the previous model,
comparing like to like throws up as many questions as answers... like what happens when
we throw a tune and shorter gears at the auto, someone will try...

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I know that you've put a lot of thought into your post but you're missing the obvious,

Like I said, the 10-speed auto does make a difference in a naturally aspirated car with 12:1 compression but I still think the performance figures have more to do with the huge increase in power... which looks to be just shy of 500hp at the flywheel based on the dyno figures.

[solarite_guy]

Bent8 is absolutely right, hp is the biggest difference in performance between the 2017 and 2018 Mustangs.

There is no doubt the 10 speed contributes a degree to the et and possibly a little bit to mph, but it takes hp to make the leaps the 2018 Mustang makes over the 2017, especially the mph increase.

This is not to minimise the effectiveness of the 10 speed. The units under test certainly perform well at this stage of their life cycle.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Like I said, the 10-speed auto does make a difference in a naturally aspirated car with 12:1 compression but I still think the performance figures have more to do with the huge increase in power... which looks to be just shy of 500hp at the flywheel based on the dyno figures.

While that may be true, I'm always dubious of Yank dyno numbers and their new roll out timing for the 1/4 mile.
The old Moroso calculator used say for a 12 flat/ 120 mph, you were looking at 1 HP/ 10 lbs of car weight
3750 lb car with 150 lb driver you'd need about 390 HP, so 420 HP at the wheels sounds about right.

The question is do these modern car have reduce losses between flywheel and wheels,

I also noticed that the GT350 was dynoed with around 477 HP at the wheels on a 529 HP car
which is about 50 hp, not the usual 70 hp we work on.....so perhaps same is true of 2018 GT Mustang..

Does that sound plausible?

and absolutely agree with increased HP but it's also more than that, it's also the extra RPMs
that the car can use at the top end 7300 compared to the '17 car's 6800/7,000, combine
that with better gearing smaller steps in gearing and you're using that HP curve better.

[Mercury Bullet]

I think electronics might be playing a large role too and I suspect the new auto has a part in this.

Look at a Miami, the engine overpowers the electronics to the point it can basically shut the motor down using launch control on fgx's, turn them off and have a smoke machine.

A lighter just as powerful 911 with pdk will just launch flat stick without an ounce of wheelsp in.

The mustang needs certain packs and has to be in particular modes to pull these times.

I still want to see a manual run.

[GO FURTHER]

If a stock 2018 can run in the high 11's.... I'd love to see what one can do with a Herrod supercharger or KPM Hennessey kit fitted.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

If a stock 2018 can run in the high 11's.... I'd love to see what one can do with a Herrod supercharger or KPM Hennessey kit fitted.

2018 mustang with a procharger..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqzhqnaJ8_Q

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

While that may be true, I'm always dubious of Yank dyno numbers and their new roll out timing for the 1/4 mile.
The old Moroso calculator used say for a 12 flat/ 120 mph, you were looking at 1 HP/ 10 lbs of car weight
3750 lb car with 150 lb driver you'd need about 390 HP, so 420 HP at the wheels sounds about right.

The question is do these modern car have reduce losses between flywheel and wheels,

I also noticed that the GT350 was dynoed with around 477 HP at the wheels on a 529 HP car
which is about 50 hp, not the usual 70 hp we work on.....so perhaps same is true of 2018 GT Mustang..

Does that sound plausible?

and absolutely agree with increased HP but it's also more than that, it's also the extra RPMs
that the car can use at the top end 7300 compared to the '17 car's 6800/7,000, combine
that with better gearing smaller steps in gearing and you're using that HP curve better.

Guess it depends on the components used in the transmission and drive shafts... lighter parts equal reduced inertia but also less power is lost through the drivetrain.

Take into account the Mustangs shorter wheelbase and 50hp sounds about right when compared to our Falcon's average 85hp power loss.

The GT350 makes 526hp @ 7500rpm while the GT is 'officially' 460hp @ 7000rpm with the same compression ratio.

My feeling is the new 5.0 is actually 480-490hp at the flywheel.

[jpd80]

Another auto, this time the standard GT with 3.15 gears and stock 235 tyres, ran 12.2 seconds @ 117 mph
That was in lousy air around 1,000 feet. The Steeda cold air package improved that to 12.11 seconds @ 118 mph

https://youtu.be/6j8XBUZOicc?t=95