Mazda claim new Diesel 6 is faster than local V8's - Page 2

GTP290 · 05-12-2008, 10:19 PM

do they suffer from heat soak after a few hard runs, how much would that affect there performance? What I dont get is they claim diesels are an enviromentaly friendly vehicle, but many health experts claim that the most harmfull fumes in our air come from diesel fuel, no wonder everyones confused.

snappy · 05-12-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

It's 4 cylinders short of an 8 too, so it's a pretty good effort.

plus a turbo and 150 nm of torque short not even close
so its nothing to write home about.

The new isuzu getting 1400km to the tank thats an achivement.

Spanrz · 05-12-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Have you been in a new model diesel ?
Here's mine (note redline), I'd like to see a Boss V8 double it....

Hahaha.. Nice. But if you knew where I worked, 5K for a diesel, man, you start heading for the hill's at 3.5k-4k.
I'd be surprised if it get's past 5k on a flat road flat knacker. Must be made with lightweight materials to get that.
Probably on a down hill grade, with a low gear chosen, might give you the over rev (over 5K). You'd be hearing engine metal sounds by then.

**ebxr8240** · 06-12-2008, 12:40 AM

Modern diesels go hard compared to early truck type engines..
The new Hino and Isuzu trucks we have at work go well compared to the older models.. NO smoke either..
Renault have a REAL good diesel...
I know a guy who holes a Nissan Patrol diesel like above...
Did it going though a stream.. Water doesn't compress very well !!!

Bent8 · 06-12-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossus

Was reading a review/news piece on the new Mazda 6 diesel that is coming to Aus in the paper today (think its Carsguide). In the article it states "Mazda claims the new 2.2-litre diesel will out accelerate the locally grown V8 performance sedans from Ford and Holden in fourth gear from 80km/h to 120km/h."

The new 6 is powered by a 2.2L turbo dieselwith 136kw @ 3500rpm and 400Nm from 1800-3000rpm and does 0-100km/h in 8.5secs.

What say you?

I read that a few times to make sure I wasn't hallucinating and honestly, this thread should be in the humour section! (if there is one on this site)

A BOSS 315 makes over 400Nm from idle, how on earth is a diesel powered Mazda supposed to beat it with a measly 182HP?...not going to happen.

LPG EF2 GLI · 06-12-2008, 01:26 AM

Just wonderin', all you diesel lovers who think modern diesels are fast, have you actually ever been in a modern v8 powered car? I think you might be surprised there too.

If petrol technology matched that of diesel (i.e. turbo, direct-injection), diesel wouldn't have a hope in the world of matching petrol anywhere in the rev range. Diesels have less bottom end-torque than petrol, a bit of mid-range, and absolutely no top-end.

So let's compare turbo with turbo, direct injection with direct injection, with both petrol and diesel engines of the same capacity, and see which comes out on top...

BlackLS · 06-12-2008, 02:44 AM

Maybe they were factoring the V8 auto sitting in drive. So you need to factor the kickdown time.

tex · 06-12-2008, 03:45 AM

FFS, what a waste of, well, something.

I'll give a dirty little diesel crud box a run, any run. Go away tree huggers and hug your trees. Leave the racing talk to those that don't buy a 4 piston turdo oil burner to save some fuel, or the planet.

What a friggin joke.

burnz · 06-12-2008, 07:02 AM

renault (Mack) allway's had good diesel

it's taken a long time for the rest of the world in diesel land to catch up to
cummin's, cat, detroit, perkins.

AUIIForte · 06-12-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossus

Was reading a review/news piece on the new Mazda 6 diesel that is coming to Aus in the paper today (think its Carsguide). In the article it states "Mazda claims the new 2.2-litre diesel will out accelerate the locally grown V8 performance sedans from Ford and Holden in fourth gear from 80km/h to 120km/h."

The new 6 is powered by a 2.2L turbo dieselwith 136kw @ 3500rpm and 400Nm from 1800-3000rpm and does 0-100km/h in 8.5secs.

What say you?

I know that with the Ford V8's, going about 80km/h, you can still shift into second, and with that said, good luck to the Mazda.

Seeing as the Mazda weighs about the same as my car, which only produces 356nm, and I have never been able to overtake a V8, I highly doubt a car with about 40 more nm of torque, AND in front-wheel-drive could do it. My car also gets to 100km/h quicker than that Mazda claims, so its just very doubtful.

I drive a Forte.

YOOT · 06-12-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ahh ok, so its a normal small high speed diesel motor. (yes i see the redline) Does it die in the *** like the Ranger diesel does at the top end?

Ofcourse it does, but you don't have to slip the clutch when towing 3000kg uphill, just let it out and away you go.

An it will use 30% less fuel than a Falcon around town.

Horses for Courses...

sgt_doofey · 06-12-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LPG EF2 GLI

Diesels have less bottom end-torque than petrol

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Our 307 has 320Nm of torque on tap from 1750rpm through to about 4000rpm.

I'd like to see a non-turbo petrol car that has their peak torque available at 1750rpm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

I'll give a dirty little diesel...

After we had driven 17,000kms in the 307, I ran my finger inside the tail pipe and it came out clean. You'd be surprised how clean modern diesel's actually are, especially ones equipped with particulate filters.

AUXRVIII · 06-12-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

No doubt . But the mazda still has less torque than or aussie 8's

You forgot they have less weight to move also.

brenx · 06-12-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Modern diesels go hard compared to early truck type engines..
The new Hino and Isuzu trucks we have at work go well compared to the older models.. NO smoke either..

True, the 06 Hino I drive has no smoke at all unless I use the exhaust brake. Even then it's a little puff then it's clean. It is gutless though as are most hino's I've driven. 3500rpm @ 100kph all day long but don't let the lackerband unwind

bd737 · 06-12-2008, 01:09 PM

2.2 litre petrol turbo as advanced as that 2.2 litre diesel turbo, and the petrol will have it.

As for it beating a local V8 80-120, maybe in 1982...

**PepeLePew** · 06-12-2008, 01:36 PM

Kerb weight around 1540kg, motivated by 400Nm at 260Nm/tonne....around the 1750kg mark at (how can Ford still have TBC on the website for released cards) motivated by 520Nm at near 300Nm/tonne (lets be kind and take XR8). Not that much in it....but then there is gearing, final drive, yadda yadda....maybe the thing just has a sweet spot at 80-120 where most are making a gear change or two.

Either way, its getting everyone talking about the thing so it worked.

bd737 · 06-12-2008, 01:46 PM

Torque isn't the be-all and end-all though like these diesel fans think - power (torque multiplication) is important too. And the Mazda falls well short.

vztrt · 06-12-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP290

do they suffer from heat soak after a few hard runs, how much would that affect there performance? What I dont get is they claim diesels are an enviromentaly friendly vehicle, but many health experts claim that the most harmfull fumes in our air come from diesel fuel, no wonder everyones confused.

Tier 3 & 4 diesels have reduced the NoX gas that comes from the exhaust so that is why they have become enviornmentally friendly. The earlier diesels they worked on reducing the particulate from the engine and this is why they dont run black smoke like the old one's do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LPG EF2 GLI

Just wonderin', all you diesel lovers who think modern diesels are fast, have you actually ever been in a modern v8 powered car? I think you might be surprised there too.

If petrol technology matched that of diesel (i.e. turbo, direct-injection), diesel wouldn't have a hope in the world of matching petrol anywhere in the rev range. Diesels have less bottom end-torque than petrol, a bit of mid-range, and absolutely no top-end.

So let's compare turbo with turbo, direct injection with direct injection, with both petrol and diesel engines of the same capacity, and see which comes out on top...

VW is saying with the new DSC transmissions coming out petrol will be cheaper to run. Mind you the head of VW said that diesels were a waste of money in Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

renault (Mack) allway's had good diesel

it's taken a long time for the rest of the world in diesel land to catch up to
cummin's, cat, detroit, perkins.

lol, CAT is one of the leading companies in manufacturing diesel engines. Anyway half the engines in their models are Cummins.

1TUFFUTE · 07-12-2008, 12:22 AM

bunch of tossers. Chuck it on the track an watch the figures climb an climb as the diesel heats up. Look out aussie muscle cars its diesel to the rescue...maybe holden could bolt one in their hsvs to keep up with the fpvs

Kryton · 07-12-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tex

FFS, what a waste of, well, something.

I'll give a dirty little diesel crud box a run, any run. Go away tree huggers and hug your trees. Leave the racing talk to those that don't buy a 4 piston turdo oil burner to save some fuel, or the planet.

What a friggin joke.

maybe we should look back at LeMans and see what position the "Tree Huggers" were placed at the finish line.
Oh, thats right, FIRST by a load of laps.

MITCHAY · 07-12-2008, 12:57 AM

I got absolutely smoked by a modded VW Polo TDi a few weeks ago. Definitely have some poke in them those turbo diesels!

gtfpv · 07-12-2008, 12:59 AM

everyone repeat after me . MAZADADADADADADADA MAZADADADADADA, KATAKATA BROOM KATA KATA BROOM. oh yes and turbo bypass PSSSS.

naddis01 · 07-12-2008, 02:22 AM

FFS. Some people argue over the smallest detail. Ever heard of horses for courses. Yes the Mazda 6 diesel will have some go between 80 - 120. Yes a V8 will have some almost everywhere. They arent claiming the diesel is quicker overall. Get over it. The diesel will suit some people. A V8 will suit some people. Who really cares either way!

sgt_doofey · 07-12-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

maybe we should look back at LeMans and see what position the "Tree Huggers" were placed at the finish line.
Oh, thats right, FIRST by a load of laps.

I think that they might have taken all three positions on the podium. Audi first, Peugeot second and third. And they had 4 out of the top 5 being diesels.
http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans...ccueil_gb.html

plext · 07-12-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

....Here's mine....

'Sif it's that clean.

As to the subject at hand, it's fairly typical advertising bumf with the speed and gear selection criteria. The Mazda quite likely has a different final drive ratio making gear for gear comparisons fairly pointless. The real question is "under optimal conditions and any gear(s), which is faster?" which I would suggest is a slightly different ball game.

It's the usual advertising industry smoke and mirrors, I see nothing to get worked up about.