Brisbane New Speed Cameras, lower tolerance level!!!!

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

No living human has the ability to keep a car to within one kilometer per hour plus or minus. Even the best cruise control varies up and down depending on the road, and people would get pinged even if they had set it a couple of k's under.

no one is asking you to keep your vehicle at within 1km/h of 60km/h.....just less than it.....is that too hard to grasp or achieve. If you think you cant keep your speed within even 5km/h best YOU do 10km/h below the limit or maybe you can get professional help to improve your skills as doing 10km/h less than everyone else for the majority of the time(just in case you dont register a steep decline that rockets your speed up by 10km/h) is bound to irritate other drivers.

[Mitch_]

much like you're irritating people on here? :P :P

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's easy, just drive a little under the speed limit and that way you don't have to check your speed...
Most drivers routinely do all of the checks you mentioned above day in day out...
If it all to hard, maybe take the bus instead....

No one is saying it's hard. But wouldn't it be better to focus on the road for as long as possible and focus on the inside of your vehicle as little as possible. You know for SAFETY reasons. The government loves road safety and at a high risk location(intersections) most people go through at a reasonable speed anyway.
If they want a speed camera at an intersection, it should only be active on a yellow or red.
You know to stop people putting their foot down to beat the light. Those people are more dangerous then someone passing through a green at 5km/h over while watching where they are going.



Having said all that I will just say I love speed cameras. They are the best road safety tool. Nothing can top them. No need for police to keep a look out for bad drivers when a camera can check for the worst drivers on the road.
Cameras are gods gift to road safety. I agree with all the speed camera fans here.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by sudszy

no one is asking you to keep your vehicle at within 1km/h of 60km/h.....just less than it.....is that too hard to grasp or achieve. .

is that really safer than just driving along with the flow of traffic? i would argue that speed discrepancy is less safe than all cars driving the same speed. it only takes a few self righteous people (hello sudszy) who drive along at 55 everywhere because they soak up all the gov propoganda, to really impact on the flow of traffic, and cause more risk than possibly drifting over by 1 or 2km but keeping a steady flow.

these threads always go down the same path, with the usual suspect(s) doing his best to convince us all of the 'speed kills' mantra.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

No one is saying it's hard. But wouldn't it be better to focus on the road for as long as possible and focus on the inside of your vehicle as little as possible. You know for SAFETY reasons. are gods gift to road safety. I agree with all the speed camera fans here.

so best thing to do in your opinion Ben would be to remove speedos from cars so drivers could keep their eyes on the road a few fractions of a second a longer every minute or so. Best remove those pesky mirrors too and rip out all the other dash instruments, out with the sound system too.
speed limits, no need, as long as you dont blink it will be far safer to be going at any speed you feel like.

Beats me how you ever knew how fast you are going when you claim its too unsafe to look at the speedo , but you keep reporting here how you reckon 130km/h on the highway is safe at 2am in the morning, my head is spinning on how you actually knew how fast you are going.


It really is the most child like logic Ive encountered in a long time.

yes driving through an intersection is a dangerous thing and one's concentration should be switched on here. Certainly its not the time to be playing with the sound system, checking the oil pressure whatever, or even checking the speedo.

That's something you do every minute or so , in the time it takes to blink!
if you dont think you can maintain more or less the same speed for a minute at a time, perhaps get a multistage speed alert fitted to your car.....or take the bus.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Having said all that I will just say I love speed cameras. They are the best road safety tool. Nothing can top them. No need for police to keep a look out for bad drivers when a camera can check for the worst drivers on the road.
Cameras are gods gift to road safety. I agree with all the speed camera fans here.

you and me both. speed camera's save lives. the evidence is so clear. can't believe people still argue against them.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by sudszy

so best thing to do in your opinion Ben would be to remove speedos from cars so drivers could keep their eyes on the road a few fractions of a second a longer every minute or so. Best remove those pesky mirrors too and rip out all the other dash instruments, out with the sound system too.

you always take things to the extreme and i feel you live in denial. either that, or you don't get out much. i'm tipping both.

look around when you drive. the focus on speed has created drivers that are preoccupied with not speeding, so much so that all other road rules are being ignored. i see it every day, as does anyone else who drives daily. driving standards are abysmal at the moment and yet speed (or not) is apparently the answer to all the problems.

this county continues to make rules for the minor group of people that don't follow the rules to start with.

[SEZ213]

May I just point out, most people blink every ten seconds or so, perhaps even more frequently dependent on your particular biology...

I'm not a speed camera fan, but logic needs to start prevailing somewhere doesn't it?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by prydey

you always take things to the extreme and i feel you live in denial. either that, or you don't get out much. i'm tipping both.

look around when you drive. the focus on speed has created drivers that are preoccupied with not speeding, so much so that all other road rules are being ignored. i see it every day, as does anyone else who drives daily. driving standards are abysmal at the moment and yet speed (or not) is apparently the answer to all the problems.

.

All I have noticed when I drive is that there are less people exceeding the speed limit by more than 5km/h than there ever has been, but I have also observed a very large % who seem to travel at the 62-3km/h range(this is what reducing the tolerances is all about), now why is that when there is basically no chance of having a speedo that under -reads.....people abusing the present tolerances.

Have has there been a decrease in other driving standards, not that ive noticed or could quantified(note, Im not saying general driving standards are good), but what evidence do you have that other areas, road rules are being neglected?, there is plenty of evidence on what Im saying about the speeds

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by sudszy

All I have noticed when I drive is that there are less people exceeding the speed limit by more than 5km/h than there ever has been, but I have also observed a very large % who seem to travel at the 62-3km/h range(this is what reducing the tolerances is all about), now why is that when there is basically no chance of having a speedo that under -reads.....people abusing the present tolerances.

Have has there been a decrease in other driving standards, not that ive noticed or could quantified(note, Im not saying general driving standards are good), but what evidence do you have that other areas, road rules are being neglected?, there is plenty of evidence on what Im saying about the speeds

Whilst I agree in principle on speeds, and that it's put in the too hard basket - I have to say, driving abilities have decreased rapidly. Not long ago in Qld they were actually going to let those going for their P's fail to indicate during a driving lesson...that's pretty downhill if you ask me...

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

so best thing to do in your opinion Ben would be to remove speedos from cars so drivers could keep their eyes on the road a few fractions of a second a longer every minute or so. Best remove those pesky mirrors too and rip out all the other dash instruments, out with the sound system too.
speed limits, no need, as long as you dont blink it will be far safer to be going at any speed you feel like.

Beats me how you ever knew how fast you are going when you claim its too unsafe to look at the speedo , but you keep reporting here how you reckon 130km/h on the highway is safe at 2am in the morning, my head is spinning on how you actually knew how fast you are going.


It really is the most child like logic Ive encountered in a long time.

yes driving through an intersection is a dangerous thing and one's concentration should be switched on here. Certainly its not the time to be playing with the sound system, checking the oil pressure whatever, or even checking the speedo.

That's something you do every minute or so , in the time it takes to blink!
if you dont think you can maintain more or less the same speed for a minute at a time, perhaps get a multistage speed alert fitted to your car.....or take the bus.

Firstly, driving at 2am there is not much around to run into(you should try it some time) and yes I believe some highway limits are too low(that's a topic for another day) so yeah it's not too hard to look down at your speedo when there is nothing much around you, but when entering a busy intersection in the middle of the day, there is a bit more going on.


Yeah sure lets go with your idea, lets rip out ALL dash instruments from every car, including mirrors. yeah good idea.

That is the most child like logic I have ever encounted.



I would also love to know what type of roads your drive on where you can keep your car at the exact same speed for a minute straight without looking at your speedo.

Here where I live we have these things called hills. It's the popular hunting ground for speed cameras.
Going up and down different grade slopes every 20 seconds you either have to look at your speedo constantly or drive to what you feel comfortable with and risk going a bit over every now and then.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

but when entering a busy intersection in the middle of the day, there is a bit more going on

I dont think anyone suggested you should be taking your eyes of the road when you are entering/driving through an intersection:

Originally Posted by sudszy

yes driving through an intersection is a dangerous thing and one's concentration should be switched on here. Certainly its not the time to be playing with the sound system, checking the oil pressure whatever, or even checking the speedo. .

what's wrong with checking your speed a couple of 100m out from the intersection, do you think you can maintain being under the limit for that long? ...how did you manage to keep under the speed limit to pass your licence? please explain.

Personally, I never exceed the speed limit and just back off as I approach a typical suburban 60km/h intersection and would enter the intersection at ~5km/h less than the limit, no need to be looking at a speedo before or during.

Originally Posted by Ben73

Going up and down different grade slopes every 20 seconds you either have to look at your speedo constantly or drive to what you feel comfortable with and risk going a bit over every now and then.

Why do you have to risk going over? that's a decision you've decided to make because you want to travel right on the limit all the time. If you want to do that, enable your speed alert device, yes the one you dont use because you dont like it going off all the time

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I'm not a speed camera fan, but logic needs to start prevailing somewhere doesn't it?

The problem I've found (here in Speed Camera Capital Victoria) is that the quality of people driving is getting worse. More people getting agro with one another, running of red lights, people scared to go go over the limit (for about 5 seconds) were it would be safer.

The mentality in Vic is to stay under the limit and nothing bad can happen. Not to drive safely and be aware of your surroundings. Speed cameras are not making us better drivers and that's worrying as traffic congestion is increasing and what I'm seeing will be creating bigger problems then a couple of k's over the limit.

[kpcart]

its very easy to achieve a constant speed while driving, everyone can do it while taking driving lessons and sitting their driving test, but the next day they dont care anymore. i received a speeding fine today, 72 in a 60kmh zone. i will pay the fine straight away and get back to driving sensibly, i know where and when i got caught by the camera and accept that it was my fault and will not cry foul about revenue raising. i voluntarily sped and will pay the voluntary tax (speeding fine) straight away.

there are people on this page claiming no human being can keep a constant speed, those people obviously havent tried because they are so full of hate to the people catching them breaking the law. to those people i say this, there are people over 80 who are sitting a yearly driving test and passing them, and even they know how to keep a constant speed, if they didnt they would not pass the test. people that complain about revenue raising are the same ones that get frustrated at (old and young) people who drive at or slightly below the speed limit, and get frustrated at people who take off slowly from the lights. these people have an OCD issue while driving, feeling they have to be ahead of everyone, they no patience, and sensible drivers laugh when they are overtaken by such fools, because they know they have no balls and prove this with their lack of patience with slow (normal) drivers. these impatient people are the ones that get speeding fines and are the same ones that complain of revenue raising. my father is an old man now, but he hasnt had a speeding fine since 1991, because he doesnt speed, and he has no issue with revenue raising because he is a sensible driver.

Get a life you complainers, you signed an agreement when you got your licence to obey the road rules. if you get caught speeding, take it like a man (or woman) and pay up and learn from it.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Having said all that I will just say I love speed cameras. They are the best road safety tool. Nothing can top them. No need for police to keep a look out for bad drivers when a camera can check for the worst drivers on the road.
Cameras are gods gift to road safety. I agree with all the speed camera fans here.

Oh definately...as my nephew in the dog squad says, when he was a constable starting out, he had to sit in the back of the van, and every time the camera went off, he'd look up, wonder which car it was, and also wonder a few other things, like "wonder why he was speeding?"
Is the driver:
* Drunk?
* Under the influence of drugs?
* Stolen car?
* Unroadworthy car?
* Unregistered car?
* Got a boot full of dope?
* Got warrents out against him?
etc, etc, etc...all things that "in the old days" when there was a highly visible police presence actually physically pulling people over, would have been caught and the offender removed from the road straight away, instead of letting him go on his merry way and get a photo a couple of weeks later.

Much safer, I certainly agree!

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by csv8

Centre for Accident Research and Road Safety Queensland research officer David Soole said digital technology could help reduce the state's road toll,

could, but it wont.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

could, but it wont.

I wonder how they would address the studies from around the world that all show that cameras do nothing to help the road toll...in fact in one area of England, after the introduction of cameras, the accidents went up. Probably, as they said about that one of Top Gear, people were now scanning the bushes for Gatso's instead of watching the damn road.

Come to that, if "speed kills" then how come after the dropped the speed limit in the Northern Territory from "unlimited" to 130kph, the road toll in the first 12 months went up by 50%? The best explanation I saw for that anomoly was that previously, people made up thier own mind how fat to drive, and most people drove at a reasonable speed. Once you put up a sign saying you can do 130 however, people who before would have been quite comfortable driving along at 100 to 110, people who would never have driven at 130kph before that time, now drove "at the legally allowed limit", and ended up coming to grief.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by kpcart

there are people on this page claiming no human being can keep a constant speed, those people obviously havent tried because they are so full of hate to the people catching them breaking the law.

you shouldn't really make assumptions. not everyone complains because they have been caught with their hand it the cookie jar. some just don't like the mentality at the moment that focusing on speed is the big saviour of mankind.

Originally Posted by sudszy

Personally, I never exceed the speed limit

good boy (even though i don't believe you). it doesn't automatically make you a safe driver, or a safer driver than someone who slips over by 1 or 3 km/h every now and then. this is the problem i have with all your arguments. you have this mentality that as soon as i go 61, i'm much more at risk than travelling at 60. there is no data that can prove that this has anything to do with the road toll. sure, they can do studies about braking distances and what not but they can't check how fast cars were going that have been involved in accidents. its all speculation.

for the record, i don't subscribe to the theory that you spend too much time looking at your dash, as thats just all part of driving and if you can't cope with that then hand in your licence.

the reason i generally join in these troll feeding exercises is because i don't believe speeding (or the focus on it) is the be all and end all like the govt seem to at the moment. apart from sudszy, who must not drive much, everyone will tell you the driving standards have taken a dive. not indicating, tailgating, sitting in the right hand lane, dreaming, hand held devices, driving under the influence etc etc. maybe if they had a decent crack at some of the other road rules they might actually get somewhere.


and finally, to get back to the original topic, when they say they are cutting out the tolerance, i think what they are saying is, previously when you got caught, they would wipe 3km or so off the detected speed and that would become your fine eg detected doing 71 in a 60, fined for doing 68 in a 60. i think now they are saying that whatever speed is detected, that is what you will get fined. i don't believe they are saying you will be fined for doing 61 in a 60.

[No.6]

Originally Posted by sudszy

so best thing to do in your opinion Ben would be to remove speedos from cars so drivers could keep their eyes on the road a few fractions of a second a longer every minute or so. Best remove those pesky mirrors too and rip out all the other dash instruments, out with the sound system too.
speed limits, no need, as long as you dont blink it will be far safer to be going at any speed you feel like.

Beats me how you ever knew how fast you are going when you claim its too unsafe to look at the speedo , but you keep reporting here how you reckon 130km/h on the highway is safe at 2am in the morning, my head is spinning on how you actually knew how fast you are going.


It really is the most child like logic Ive encountered in a long time.

yes driving through an intersection is a dangerous thing and one's concentration should be switched on here. Certainly its not the time to be playing with the sound system, checking the oil pressure whatever, or even checking the speedo.

That's something you do every minute or so , in the time it takes to blink!
if you dont think you can maintain more or less the same speed for a minute at a time, perhaps get a multistage speed alert fitted to your car.....or take the bus.

pfft. Exaggerated much?

Might as well take everyones licence away and rely on australias fantastic public transport system. Hell, lets get rid of cars altogether and use push bikes instead. Better for the environment and the worst injury you can get is a grazed knee and there wont be a need for speedzones! If we cant do that, put gps tracking systems in each and every car that measures speed, matched against a database of speed limits on whatever road you travel on. At the end of each week, drivers should be required to upload their data to the RTA so they can then issue fines for people that have been speeding throughout the week.

We shall call it the Sudszy Nanny state!

Lets be realistic here. Can every single one of you (step off your high horses for a minute) garuantee that you have NEVER EVER drifted 1-2km over the speed limit? If you can, I WANT PROOF. If you cant provide proof, then stfu.

I have no problem with cameras as i stated before, my issue is with proper use of those cameras, particularly so called safety cameras at intersections. A red light camera is all thats needed. If the government wanted to introduce cameras that measure your average speed on long stretches of road from point a to point b, thats fine. Speed cameras at school zones should be compulsary. Red light cameras in all directions at intersections a MUST.

Its not about driving skill or learn 2 dr1v3 bro. Keeping a car at or under the speed limit is easy. Im talking about reducing the factors a driver needs to consider at an intersection. That is all. It might even be a better idea to put the speed camera 10 metres AFTER the intersection, then any driver speeding through an intersection will be pinged, but atleast they are through the intersection right?

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Why do you have to risk going over? that's a decision you've decided to make because you want to travel right on the limit all the time. If you want to do that, enable your speed alert device, yes the one you dont use because you dont like it going off all the time

I don't sit on the limit all the time for starters.
I don't have a speed alert on my current personal car or car I drive at work and they are both only a couple years old.
That's all I am saying to you. No point saying anything else.


Kcart says that people who think cameras are for revenue raising are people just complaining about being caught.

That is not true on any level. I think cameras are ******** and I have never been fined for anything, ever.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by No.6

my issue is with proper use of those cameras, particularly so called safety cameras at intersections. A red light camera is all thats needed.

i don't mind the speed camera's at intersections. if you need to accelerate to get through, then you probably could've stopped. we can all come up with a million reasons why its a bad idea (looking at dash instead of out windscreen, truck up my backside, etc etc) but the fact is a large % of accidents at intersections is due to someone not obeying the signals.

[2011G6E]

GPS tracking? Be careful what you wish for...

We have it in all the work Prados at the depot. They track all sorts of things...overspeed, "harsh braking and acceleration", "excessive cornering speed" ("change in direction of 70 degrees or more at higher than 50kph"), seat belt not done up, etc.
Now, we're all well aware of this, and all drive sensibly...our jobs could depend on it...and use cruise control religiously.
One guy got a "please explain" the other day for doing 170kph. Looked like he was about to be bent over and reamed with a pineapple and sacked on the spot, until someone checked the entire download, and it said he had been doing a steady 98kph, when in four seconds the speed jumped to 170kph for a few seconds, then dropped back to 98kph. damn good performers those diesel Prados!!! A further check of the history showed a few other occasions where the speed apparently jumped to 170kph, including one memorable red flag of 200kph...sitting in the carpark outside the station. Who needs a Veyron?

If someones job wasn't on the line, it'd be funny as hell. Certainly made the rest of us sweat wondering what the GPS was alerting the head honchos about...

The fact is that tolerance should be allowed. It allows for simple human error, mechanical faults, errors in software of the machinery measuring your speed, etc. Every single scientific instrument on Earth has an error allowance built into it...the most visible of which is on a good glass thermometer where you will see a plus or minus 0.1 or 0.2 degree marked on it for example...I happen to have an expensive glass "Zeal" brand -10 to 110 degrees Celsius one made in England sitting right here from my days as a microbiologist tester in a food processing plant, and the little paper that comes with it says "accurate to 0.2 degrees celsius plus or minus". It is taken into consideration when doing your final calculations. except, apparently, speed cameras and radar guns...they are the only single infallible device ever concieved by man...
You simply cannot have a fair system where no error is allowed at all.
Nothing is perfect, and no one is perfect, and the system should make allowances for that. A system that doesn't only has itself to blame when people start suspecting it's just there to raise money.

[Ben73]

Those GPS in the prados are ****.
We approached an intersection that said no right turn. So we turned left and about 10 seconds later the car phone rang and the LSO asked us why we just made a right hand turn illegally WTF!

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by No.6

Im talking about reducing the factors a driver needs to consider at an intersection. ?

So what is so hard about checking your speed a couple of hundred meters out, then actually backing off the throttle a little as you go through the intersection.......be impossible to get pinged for going to fast if you did that(also increasing your chance of avoiding whatever incident occurs when you are in there).....or is that too hard too?

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

So what is so hard about checking your speed a couple of hundred meters out, then actually backing off the throttle a little as you go through the intersection.......be impossible to get pinged for going to fast if you did that(also increasing your chance of avoiding whatever incident occurs when you are in there).....or is that too hard too?

That's too hard.

When I come to an intersection I put the pedal to the metal so I spend as little time as possible in the intersection because being in an intersection is dangerous.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by No.6

Lets be realistic here. Can every single one of you (step off your high horses for a minute) garuantee that you have NEVER EVER drifted 1-2km over the speed limit? If you can, I WANT PROOF. If you cant provide proof, then stfu.

For goodness sake,if you go about your driving by trying maintain a speed within 1km/h of the speed you can get booked for you will most likely fail.
Give yourself a better margin.

The whole idea is there will be a reduction in incidents if we can get that large % of people who travel at 3-4km/h above present limit because they know they wont get pinged due to a tolerance of 5km/h, down to 1-2km/h below the limit(they seem to be able to keep 1km/h under the tolerance now without much trouble).....to a speed in line with the rest of the law abiding drivers who understand the concept of a speed limit, then the roads will be a safer place.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by sudszy

The whole idea is there will be a reduction in incidents if we can get that large % of people who travel at 3-4km/h above present limit because they know they wont get pinged due to a tolerance of 5km/h, down to 1-2km/h below the limit(they seem to be able to keep 1km/h under the tolerance now without much trouble).....to a speed in line with the rest of the law abiding drivers who understand the concept of a speed limit, then the roads will be a safer place.

see this right here is why you get such a great reception on this forum. you are living proof that the govt's brainwashing has worked. seriously, do you honestly believe that tripe!!!

if everyone does the speed limit or under, the roads will be a safer place

there is a member on AFF who goes by the name of fullnoise. he has posted a few vids on youtube of footage from the camera mounted on the dash of his truck. maybe you should have a look at some of them and then tell me how many of the drivers were speeding!!

you really are a worry mr sudszy.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by prydey

see this right here is why you get such a great reception on this forum. you are living proof that the govt's brainwashing has worked. seriously, do you honestly believe that tripe!!!

if everyone does the speed limit or under, the roads will be a safer place

.

the stats show otherwise, so do panel shops that are closing down in vic.
and thinking people value them more than boorish bully people carrying on with the usual rhetoric of govco conspiracies on motoring forums.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by sudszy

The whole idea is there will be a reduction in incidents if we can get that large % of people who travel at 3-4km/h above present limit because they know they wont get pinged due to a tolerance of 5km/h, down to 1-2km/h below the limit(they seem to be able to keep 1km/h under the tolerance now without much trouble).....to a speed in line with the rest of the law abiding drivers who understand the concept of a speed limit, then the roads will be a safer place.

Our previous car, a 2004 Landcruiser, was driven for a few years until we bought a GPS. It was only then that we discovered that the speedo read slow. 100kph on the speedo was actually 105kph. i checked it with the GPS in my Nokia phone as well, same thing. Checked it with a mates borrowed Garmin, same thing.
If we had lived in a place where there is zero tolerance, we could have lost our licence in a days driving and not even known about it.
Even if we'd sat "1 to 2 k below the limit" by the speedo, we would still have been a few k's over.

Wonder how many people have checked their speedo compared to a GPS...? Not many I would bet.


"Panel shops closing down in Victoria"? Really. And that can be solely attributed to increased speed cameras and lower tolerances can it rather than the way the economy has been going down hill and businesses in general have been having a hard time?
Far too much effort is put into telling people that all they have to do is not drink drive and don't speed and they will never have an accident, or that somehow a head on impact at highway speeds is perfectly surviveable at 100kph, but you'll be dead at 105. "Studies show" that anything over 80kph impact with a solid object is "basically unsurviveable", as your body just can't take the forces involved, airbags or not. Oh sure, there's the odd miraculous survival story, but generally speaking, if someone comes into your lane doing even 80kph when you are doing 100, you're nicely brown bread...

[Ben73]

Nah stats say if you speed you will be killed. Crashing at 90 in a 110 zone and you will just check your car for damage then drive home.

Who needs to learn how to drive a car properly when you can obey the limit and you will be fine.