Holden secures $200m subsidy - Page 2

**ebxr8240** · 22-03-2012, 01:32 PM

Gov dept should be buying these cars made here !!

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

There are thousands of businesses that survive in ultra competive markets with no / minimal support from the Government why can't GM Holden?

Because the government has opened the door to Asians to come in and transfer price their way through our domestic car industry.
Imagine if we let China or Korea bring in it own workers to private mines and just cut the rest of us out.
Or how about import Asian workers on Asian wages to do your job for a fraction of the cost...

phillyc · 22-03-2012, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueOvalPrint

Why isnt the headline "Commodore dead in 2016" instead of "Holden gets $200m"? If it was Ford, that's how Drive would have skewed the story...

My money is on the replacement being a locally built (fwd) Malibu...

Couldn't be more spot on about Drive et all. It was the Falcon it would be skewed that way. In fact, skew is too light a word. The headline would be massive bold writing. It would be mentioned in the first and last sentence of the article and every paragraph too all whilst proclaiming how the Commodore survived. Heck any story that is automotive related would have it tied in needlessly.

But it ISN'T the Falcon confirmed as dead. COMMODORE is DEAD 2016. So, they gloss over it.

PS I support the co-investment that is made by Government and the Auto industry. We absolutely need manufacturing, parcticularly high level value added in Australia.

phillyc · 22-03-2012, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Gov dept should be buying these cars made here !!

Absolutely.

Sedans
* Falcons,
* Commodore
* Cruze
* Camry and Aurion.

SUV
* Territory

Ute
* Falcon
* Commodore

Hatch
* Cruze

4x2/4x4 Ute
* Ford Ranger / Mazda BT50 as they were designed in Australia.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Couldn't be more spot on about Drive et all. It was the Falcon it would be skewed that way. In fact, skew is too light a word. The headline would be massive bold writing. It would be mentioned in the first and last sentence of the article and every paragraph too all whilst proclaiming how the Commodore survived. Heck any story that is automotive related would have it tied in needlessly.

But it ISN'T the Falcon confirmed as dead. COMMODORE is DEAD 2016. So, they gloss over it.

PS I support the co-investment that is made by Government and the Auto industry. We absolutely need manufacturing, parcticularly high level value added in Australia.

I'm betting Commodore replacement will be Alpha platform and based on floor pan for next Cadillac CTSV,
therefore meaning about same internal room as VZ Commodore but with shorter overhangs.

Jury is still out on Ford, Global platform offers huge here and now lift in features with less developemnt costs.
Ina crude perspective, adding a Mustang front end module to an AWd Fusion/Mondeo would give an efficient RWD.

Ford has several options, it just depends which one suits best and how much cash the government is willing to splash...

Cúl-Báire · 22-03-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulsty

Thousands of car companies? Car companies the world over are suported by their governments and so are many many other companies, co investment incentives etc etc.

No not thousands of car companies, but certainly supporting businesses...

I am well aware governments literally pour money into the motor vehicle manufacturing industry around the world, but I'd be happy to bet sheep stations that Australia has one of the highest rates of funding per capita. Yes there is long term return, but the government should be pushing for the subsidies to be used in ways that make the business / operation more sustainable, and less relianton handouts and of course increasing their return.

I’ve worked in a manufacturing environment in the past, and am well aware of the overheads just to keep things going, but the other side of the coin is the industries that receive minimal government support such as construction, food processing, light manufacturing, etc...

Take construction for instance, the overheads certainly aren’t as great as manufacturing however the “ripple effect” to support industries, and contractors is of similar proportion. Yet I don’t see the Labour government giving handouts to builders that are going under such as Kell & Rigby, or even Reed Construction (whom a reliable source tells me will be forced to wind up in April if things don’t change dramatically). The knock on effect of this is the loss of thousands of jobs, and millions more government monies spent completing the government jobs they were working on.

My point I guess, is the government should be “investing” our money to achieve the maximum return, not propping a failing industry reliant on handouts. It should be acase of sure we’ll give you $200m, but we want to see a $1b return in 8 years, instead of 10 years.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

My point I guess, is the government should be “investing” our money to achieve the maximum return, not propping a failing industry reliant on handouts. It should be a case of sure we’ll give you $200m, but we want to see a $1b return in 8 years,instead of 10 years.

That view should be balanced against the ripple effect to parts suppliers and the worth in the community.

XR_Strider_GuY · 22-03-2012, 02:02 PM

Something tells me we will get the replacement of the Chevy Impala. A new redesign is scheduled in 2014. If this car will be made here at least its not all bad news. Malibu is smaller than the current Commodore.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/07/2...ement-delayed/

Battle of the Red corner and Blue corner will be against the new "replacement" Impala v Taurus.

Cúl-Báire · 22-03-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

That view should be balanced against the ripple effect to parts suppliers and the worth in the community.

Naturally...

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR_Strider_GuY

Something tells me we will get the replacement of the Chevy Impala. A new redesign is scheduled in 2014. If this car will be made here at least its not all bad news. Malibu is smaller than the current Commodore.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/07/2...ement-delayed/

Impala Vs Taurus......

mik · 22-03-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Phht...Ford, Holden...they all need government subsidies and help and protectionist taxing to shield them from the big bad world out there...

so does toyota.

Road_Warrior · 22-03-2012, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cúl-Báire

No not thousands of car companies, but certainly supporting businesses...

I am well aware governments literally pour money into the motor vehicle manufacturing industry around the world, but I'd be happy to bet sheep stations that Australia has one of the highest rates of funding per capita. Yes there is long term return, but the government should be pushing for the subsidies to be used in ways that make the business / operation more sustainable, and less relianton handouts and of course increasing their return.

I’ve worked in a manufacturing environment in the past, and am well aware of the overheads just to keep things going, but the other side of the coin is the industries that receive minimal government support such as construction, food processing, light manufacturing, etc...

Take construction for instance, the overheads certainly aren’t as great as manufacturing however the “ripple effect” to support industries, and contractors is of similar proportion. Yet I don’t see the Labour government giving handouts to builders that are going under such as Kell & Rigby, or even Reed Construction (whom a reliable source tells me will be forced to wind up in April if things don’t change dramatically). The knock on effect of this is the loss of thousands of jobs, and millions more government monies spent completing the government jobs they were working on.

My point I guess, is the government should be “investing” our money to achieve the maximum return, not propping a failing industry reliant on handouts. It should be acase of sure we’ll give you $200m, but we want to see a $1b return in 8 years, instead of 10 years.

There was an article published by one of the motoring rags about industry assistance in other countries, the US, Canada, UK and Germany were top of the list and Australia was somewhere in the middle amongst the rest of them.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 03:13 PM

Holden gets $275 million combined funding but will only be adding another $100 million to it.
That to me does not sound like the government is getting a good return regardless
of Mike Deveraux's assertion that it will bring $4 billion in products over the next ten years,
if those products were imported, buyers would get savings and GM would have less costs too.

This all sound like a big joke, how much will governments now give Ford to stay, better be just as good...

poppa smurf · 22-03-2012, 03:17 PM

I told the guvment that I would only need $10,000,000.00 to stay in south australia......bargain i thought......they laughed at me!!!

bit unfair .......even after I cut it to $5,000,000.00

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 03:27 PM

The biggest joke is this:
If the government now pursues a policy of procuring the cheapest possible cars for its fleet,
they must ultimately purchase Asian imports that are either small capacity petrol or diesel.
to do anything else smacks of favoritism towards local manufacturing, a problem in our PC world.

Conversely, not supporting the local industry by not buying products means they have just
peed a lot of money up against the wall, I don't know how you resolve those two issues..

XP6 · 22-03-2012, 03:46 PM

Monty, $8000 a year tax your a bit behind the times it'll be nearly double that.

Joe5619 · 22-03-2012, 03:50 PM

Now is article really really reall ****** me off!!

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...322-1vlw9.html

Ford have been saying the same thing about Falcon for a while now & have been hummered for it. The MD of Hodlen was asked "what would replace commodore" & his reply was "I'm not going to tell you". Ford say this & the world is coming to an end, Holden say this & the sun is shinning..

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Now is article really really reall ****** me off!!

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...322-1vlw9.html

Ford have been saying the same thing about Falcon for a while now & have been hummered for it. The MD of Hodlen was asked "what would replace commodore" & his reply was "I'm not going to tell you". Ford say this & the world is coming to an end, Holden say this & the sun is shinning..

Anyone committing that far out to a large car is frankly insane.
What if Falcon and Commodore sales continue to track downwards, Deveraux and Holden have nowhere to go except recant.
I think a better move will be to build attractive and more lower priced mid sized cars and get buyers back into local cars.

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result is madness - what the market is saying is change or die.

And Drive is obviously pleased because Holden lives and falcon in their eyes is still dying...
Moral of the story, don't go sniffing around Drive for good news about Ford..

bmorris · 22-03-2012, 04:11 PM

In the end this is good news for the local manufacturing industry, even if it is for Holden.

The government wastes money in so many other areas of our country, least it is investing in something constructive like the car industry.

People on here will complain no matter what happens, I'd imagine when Ford lets less money they will say the government doesn't help the local car companies out enough.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmorris

People on here will complain no matter what happens, I'd imagine when Ford Gets less money they will say the government doesn't help the local car companies out enough.

Not sour grapes but there's history:
Ford were only offered $30 million to bring Focus here, Holden got $149 million.

Holden refuse to discuss post 2016 big car yet when Ford does the same thing Falcon is dead..

All we ask for is parity, if Ford is offered $275 million combined to stay, then I think they will
and having Holden, Toyota and Ford commit for the next ten years is more than most were seeking

Joe5619 · 22-03-2012, 04:49 PM

It is also good to see GM investing 1Billion in Australia. People go on about the 275M that the government is co-investing, but GM is investing 1Billion into this country that otherwise would have gone elsewhere. The 275M has already paid for itself 3 fold!!

Fourd1 · 22-03-2012, 05:00 PM

Stick a commodore badge on some sh** box korean car and im sure the sheep will flock.

poppa smurf · 22-03-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourd1

Stick a commodore badge on some sh** box korean car and im sure the sheep will flock.

so when fraud does it then that is okay is it.....my wife owned a Ford KA....now talking about shitboxes......don't knock Holden when fords have so much trouble staying on the road!

many jobs are at stake here regardless of what badge is on it!

Romulus · 22-03-2012, 05:40 PM

Let 'em go broke. That's the consequence of building junk - no one buys it.

Ford all the attention Ford Australia cop it's GM-H that are the basket case.

XR6Naranja · 22-03-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

Let 'em go broke. That's the consequence of building junk - no one buys it.

Ford all the attention Ford Australia cop it's GM-H that are the basket case.

No one buys Holdens? I think you've been looking at the wrong statistics >.<

atec77 · 22-03-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

I wonder if it will be a new alpha based Commodore? I also think if their is another model built it will be a compact SUV .

Might be a good time to wack all imports with a solid tax making it uneconomical to do anything but build the cheap stuff like falcotoys locally or suufer a fiscal penalty

whales · 22-03-2012, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourd1

Stick a commodore badge on some sh** box korean car and im sure the sheep will flock.

Exactly.....They have been doing it for years and most of the time they have very successful

Brazen · 22-03-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whales

Exactly.....They have been doing it for years and most of the time they have very successful

Epica was crap and sold dismally.

Buntz · 22-03-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Anyone committing that far out to a large car is frankly insane.
What if Falcon and Commodore sales continue to track downwards, Deveraux and Holden have nowhere to go except recant.
I think a better move will be to build attractive and more lower priced mid sized cars and get buyers back into local cars.

Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result is madness - what the market is saying is change or die.

And Drive is obviously pleased because Holden lives and falcon in their eyes is still dying...
Moral of the story, don't go sniffing around Drive for good news about Ford..

**** I hate the media... I ******* detest it. All this Ford hate for the last two years is contributing to hurting sales on Falcon. And they couldn't care less. And Holden is some kind of aussie icon that can do no wrong. Bang Commodore is confirmed dead. "Aww that's cool". Falcon may be replaced.. dunno yet. "Ford's dying. Falcon sucks... told ya, you heard it from us. And we're gonna keep telling ya".

Brazen · 22-03-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

**** I hate the media... I ******* detest it. All this Ford hate for the last two years is contributing to hurting sales on Falcon. And they couldn't care less. And Holden is some kind of aussie icon that can do no wrong. Bang Commodore is confirmed dead. "Aww that's cool". Falcon may be replaced.. dunno yet. "Ford's dying. Falcon sucks... told ya, you heard it from us. And we're gonna keep telling ya".

I think its more how Holden deals with the media compared to Ford. Ford have no idea.

The media would have a field day with Holden if their senior GM execs said the same cryptic, depressing stuff senior Ford execs say to the media.