V6 or I6 Engine - Page 2

Jason[98.EL] · 12-11-2008, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynch'd

I know nothing specific about the merits or costings of the I6 vs V6 for Ford but there are some very major companies in my industry overturning multi million dollar decisions to move back into Aus with the way the dollar is going. Shell the best example.

umm i live in geelong and from what i see we have one big mother of a shell refinery here

so if shell are looking at coming back to aus who the hell is running the refinery here that has shell signage all over it

just wondering

geckoGT · 12-11-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Can anyone find the info on how much per cent of the world's pollution Australia puts out? I remember being some minuscule number like 2% or something.

If we achieved a contribution to the world pollution of 2 percent, we would be one of the worlds worst offenders for pollution.

Think of it this way, the world has 5,995,544,836 people, Australia has 18,783,551, it is plain to see we do not have 2 percent of the worlds population so we should not contribute 2 percent of polution.

The governement has stated that it will support all efforts to reduce global warming and the production of greenhouse gasses, therefore they are commited to euro 4, no holding back now.

To make things worse, in 2012 the EU is introducing a corporate average CO2 emission of 130g/km standard that must be met. You don't have to see that Australia will be forced to follow this system within a few years after this. This one of the reasons Porsche is trying to increase the controlling interest in VW, at the moment the Porsche average is 220g/km, VW is 163g/km. Porsche by themselves would have no hope of reaching this average but if they were to own VW, they could.

Ford Australia would have to do serious work to achieve this standard and the only way they can achieve this on the cheap is if they can use global engines that already meet this standard.

Paxton · 12-11-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

of afore mentioned "TTV6".

There is NO TTV6 in 123.

Ford USA can't send us any.

Nostalgia · 12-11-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimus

umm i live in geelong and from what i see we have one big mother of a shell refinery here

so if shell are looking at coming back to aus who the hell is running the refinery here that has shell signage all over it

just wondering

Royal Dutch Shell plc, so obviously it isn't being run by us. It's just in our backyard's !!

Nostalgia · 12-11-2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

There is NO TTV6 in 123.

Ford USA can't send us any. We have to make do with another EcoBoost Engine.

According to 05MkIIFutura, a TTV6 was seen being tested. I want proof.

Lynch'd · 12-11-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimus

umm i live in geelong and from what i see we have one big mother of a shell refinery here

so if shell are looking at coming back to aus who the hell is running the refinery here that has shell signage all over it

just wondering

Pinkenba oil bottling plant in QLD. It was scheduled to be decomissioned and closed by the end of the year as it wasn't competitive. Management in the US have just backflipped on the decision and are investing millions in upgrading it. Its now seen as a long term comercially viable operation with the state of the dollar.

drew`SEVNT5 · 12-11-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

There is NO TTV6 in 123.

Ford USA can't send us any. We have to make do with another EcoBoost Engine.

Such as......?

Swordsman88 · 12-11-2008, 10:24 PM

The situation with the australian dollar may increase the chances of the I6 staying (by reducing the price advantage the V6 has) but it doesn't help in terms of development dollars for the I6. To meet emission regs and remain competitive into the future against competitors, the I6 would need money spent on it, and in addition, the current situation doesn't deal with the long term issue of insufficient production numbers (it isn't used in enough cars.). Paxton has made a comment RE produciton of the V6 here...that might not be as ridiculous as it seems if ford can find a export use for the V6 (outside of falcon/territory).

So while the I6 may be as cheap, if not cheaper to build here in the short term rather than bring in the V6, it woudl cost development dollars (that woudl come out of ford aus project money) to get it compliant and competitive for the future. The V6 is much earlier in its lifecycle and will be developed by ford globally for years to come.... It is also worth noting that no-one on here knows what version of the V6 we would get, or its developmental future. We all know the I6 is running out of options to remain competitive, with an alloy block and DI pretty much all that is left for the future. Both require substantial investment and testing - while the V6 we will get has both already (or at least DI capable).

Gobes32 · 12-11-2008, 10:43 PM

I would have thought it smarter to make four cylinder engines for Focus? If Ford really do plan to sell 40,000 locally and 60,000 o'seas then surely there is a chance?

Another rumor that made the rounds was chinese investors having a look at the place.

Nostalgia · 12-11-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I would have thought it smarter to make four cylinder engines for Focus? If Ford really do plan to sell 40,000 locally and 60,000 o'seas then surely there is a chance?

Another rumor that made the rounds was chinese investors having a look at the place.

Another rumour doing the round's, this one from a insider, is that Ford are winding down their Aus operation's for shutdown in 09 ! Once again, just a rumour.

snappy · 12-11-2008, 11:07 PM

Maybe Mr rudd 6 billion dollar investment for greener cars is the cash ford need to devolop the i6 to meet new emissions . Making more jobs for aussies and possibly a better alternative cash wise than the new v6.

Gobes32 · 12-11-2008, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostalgia

Another rumour doing the round's, this one from a insider, is that Ford are winding down their Aus operation's for shutdown in 09 ! Once again, just a rumour.

I can deny that for sure.

Pedro · 12-11-2008, 11:13 PM

Gobes32 ... "The main reason we were told for the I6's demise was that it's cheaper to make a million V6's in America than 100,000 I6's in Geelong. Euro 4 is icing on the cake."

That's economic sense (although I believe it's only 70,000 i6's made annually in Geelong)

Paxton ... "The V6 can be built here as is"

That's not economic sense. We don't have the numbers

auslando ... "Production of V6 compared to I6 is only double that in the US compared to here."

1,000,000 v6's are made annually in the Georgia plant compared to 70,000 i6's here.

nostalgia ... Another rumour doing the round's, this one from a insider, is that Ford are winding down their Aus operation's for shutdown in 09 ! Once again, just a rumour.

Your rumour could be closer than you think.

want-a-XY · 12-11-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

Maybe Mr rudd 6 billion dollar investment for greener cars is the cash ford need to devolop the i6 to meet new emissions . Making more jobs for aussies and possibly a better alternative cash wise than the new v6.

i like your thinking!!!!!! the I6 in the FG is an absolutely amazing engine!!!!!!!!!!

Nostalgia · 12-11-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I can deny that for sure.

Can you ?

Auslandau · 13-11-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro

auslando ... "Production of V6 compared to I6 is only double that in the US compared to here."

1,000,000 v6's are made annually in the Georgia plant compared to 70,000 i6's here.

Do they? Thats a hell of a lot for a dead market: 2700 per day ...... where is this number based and from the Atlanta plant? Thought Georgia had finished ...... but I may be wrong!

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EgoFG · 13-11-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Sssh.

Interesting that the Yanks like the I6 over the V6. As for Volvo - I'd liken it to Mazda.

Hmmm, did Volvo go ahead with the plan to bore an extra hole in the I5 ?

SNGT · 13-11-2008, 10:06 AM

maybe V6 TT wouldn't be such a bad thing. i was reading that the twin turbo v6 is an animal

XR Martin · 13-11-2008, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Hmmm, did Volvo go ahead with the plan to bore an extra hole in the I5 ?

They already have a 3.2L I6

4Vman · 13-11-2008, 10:40 AM

I still don't understand how we can compare this virtually non existent engine with the I6....

flappist · 13-11-2008, 11:41 AM

Why is it that everyone thinks that the V configuration is so bad?

According to what I have read on AFF it is underpowered, unreliable, vibrates, emasculating and makes baby jesus cry UNLESS of course it has 8 cylinders in which case it is powerful, reliable, thunders, empowering and makes ricers quake in their boots.

Funny thing is that my little bog standard 3.5 litre V6 makes more power than ANY Falcon I6 and any Falcon 5 litre V8.

V6s can't be that bad can they?

irlewy86 · 13-11-2008, 11:57 AM

The I6 might be bad news in the grand scheme of things. Still no export market for Falcon and Territory.

Pedro · 13-11-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

Do they? Thats a hell of a lot for a dead market: 2700 per day ...... where is this number based and from the Atlanta plant? Thought Georgia had finished ...... but I may be wrong!

OK ... I was quoting numbers that were pre world melt-down.

Auslandau · 13-11-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Why is it that everyone thinks that the V configuration is so bad?

According to what I have read on AFF it is underpowered, unreliable, vibrates, emasculating and makes baby jesus cry UNLESS of course it has 8 cylinders in which case it is powerful, reliable, thunders, empowering and makes ricers quake in their boots.

Funny thing is that my little bog standard 3.5 litre V6 makes more power than ANY Falcon I6 and any Falcon 5 litre V8.

V6s can't be that bad can they?

My reason is the fact that these are made here, if its a V6 it wont be ...... another impact to Geelong.

The I6 has been around for donkeys and hs proved to be a good engine with so much potential as shown from the early days to the F6. It is an icon to Aust Ford and will be sorely missed.

Give it 12 months into V6 production (import) and I dare say things will be forgotten and they may be the best thing since sliced bread!

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Rev28K · 13-11-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

They already have a 3.2L I6

and it's designed for transverse (fwd) applications! They also have a 60 degree v8 that fits sideways. What is their production capacity and unit cost though? - flappist wasn't the 350z engine revised a year or two ago? I thought that the first version was slightly compromised at high revs (something to do with it initially being a fwd compatible engine)

irlewy86 · 13-11-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Why is it that everyone thinks that the V configuration is so bad?

According to what I have read on AFF it is underpowered, unreliable, vibrates, emasculating and makes baby jesus cry UNLESS of course it has 8 cylinders in which case it is powerful, reliable, thunders, empowering and makes ricers quake in their boots.

Funny thing is that my little bog standard 3.5 litre V6 makes more power than ANY Falcon I6 and any Falcon 5 litre V8.

V6s can't be that bad can they?

350Z has the same ADR fuel consumption as the XR6T and less torque than the XT.

Great engine for the application but it would be no match in a fleet car.

guzzis3 · 13-11-2008, 12:45 PM

all else being equal V6's vibrate more than I6's. Also the ford unit specifically lasts a ridiculously long time, is basically reliable and a known quantity. It's a great engine and along with wishbone suspension one of the key reasons I bought a falcon in the first place.

If I wanted a V6 I'd have bought a VW.

Mr Brooksy · 13-11-2008, 01:18 PM

I think this is waht everyone was talking about re: Twin Turbo Falcon V6

But Im only guessing

http://www.caradvice.com.au/10026/fo...twin-turbo-v6/

4Vman · 13-11-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Why is it that everyone thinks that the V configuration is so bad?

According to what I have read on AFF it is underpowered, unreliable, vibrates, emasculating and makes baby jesus cry UNLESS of course it has 8 cylinders in which case it is powerful, reliable, thunders, empowering and makes ricers quake in their boots.

Funny thing is that my little bog standard 3.5 litre V6 makes more power than ANY Falcon I6 and any Falcon 5 litre V8.

V6s can't be that bad can they?

8lb, 3oz baby Jesus.....?

The engine configuration/placement of the cylinders is largely irrelevant, a V6 can be just as powerful as an I6.. A "V" configuration is far more practicle and space concious than an inline config.
Lets just wait and see what we get and how it goes before condemning it...

4Vman · 13-11-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzzis3

all else being equal V6's vibrate more than I6's. Also the ford unit specifically lasts a ridiculously long time, is basically reliable and a known quantity. It's a great engine and along with wishbone suspension one of the key reasons I bought a falcon in the first place.

If I wanted a V6 I'd have bought a VW.

Care to explain how a V6 vibrates more? there are 3 different firing orders commonly used for V6's.. not all V6's are "coarse".. a well balance V6 with a symetrical firing order will rev and feel as smooth as any I6.
Fords I6 has had its fair share of issues too.. its no where near as bullet proof as many make it out to be..