Breaking news: Next-gen Holden Commodore is go

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

One question: can you put a V6 in a front-wheel-drive? If yes, then that may provide some hope to the 300 or so workers at GMH's Port Melbourne plant.

Mazda have had them in their cars for years. The top range 323-Astina and the earlier gen 626 for two I can think of. Then there are several from Toyota too of course. Engineering isn't a problem. Making it fun to drive is a tad harder.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Be interesting to see what they put the name to. Wasn't long ago they were saying buyers had moved on from the large car market and they would most likely make something else. What happens if the VF doesn't recover sales?

Or maybe they are expecting Falcon to disappear come 2016 so they have the market to itself.

Honestly I don't think even as a competitor Holden would know what Ford is doing, because I don't think Ford knows what it is doing.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Umm ok. So better to let the media as a whole just go wild with speculation about Fords manufacturing future, because a one line press release that says *yes we will be manufacturing in Australia post 2016" is apparently more provocative and harmful to the brand.

I think the Holden GM summed it up well "CEO Mike Devereux said it is now time to end speculation, conjecture and debate about the future of the large car in Australia".

Its also time for Ford to do the same thing.

Umm OK, well how about Ford just build a new Falcon in 2017 and sell it to people who might want to by a new Falcon despite a large number of idiots who have no actual interest in buying one anyway make fools of themselves for four years dribbling on internet forums.........

[jpd80]

And less than a month ago, all the scribes were convincing anyone who would listen that big cars
like Commodore were dead and Holden would be building Delta II Captiva alongside Cruze..

Now colour me stupid but wouldn't it be wise to see how the VF Commodore sales success for
about 12 months before broadcasting long range plans for regarding a zeta successor?

Did it even occur to anyone that the 2014 Falcon may be of greater significance than just a refresh?

[csv8]

Chevy Impala ????

[eb2fairmont]

My bet is RWD, slightly smaller and based of GM's alpha platform.

[geehaa]

It seems funny that people will sleep better now knowing what ford is going to produce in another 4 years.

All that has been confirmed is the commodore badge will appear on something new.

Cool.

[Gabbs]

Good on them for saying something. Your everyday person on the street was saying falcon and commodore is dead. I've been test driving some cars to upgrade the ba and even the Holden salesman was going on about how the commodore wouldn't be around for much longer. Ford need to announce something it is hurting the falcon nameplate.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

One question: can you put a V6 in a front-wheel-drive? If yes, then that may provide some hope to the 300 or so workers at GMH's Port Melbourne plant.

Yep, transverse V6 has been around for a long time, GM even had FWD V8s for a while in Cadillac entry level models, unsure if they still do now.

It was called the Northstar V8, transverse V8 setup.

With the Falcon not selling many numbers, I think its to do if you go into a dealership there aren't many new ones in the show room floor if at all, I noticed this at Essendon Ford last time I was there.

Its hard to sell something you can't show to a customer, and there is a bit of a wait for one isn't there? Not only that but check out the equipment levels on the imported Ford range compared to the local Falcon, they come with some pretty cool stuff the Falcon doesn't have.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Gabbs

Good on them for saying something. Your everyday person on the street was saying falcon and commodore is dead. I've been test driving some cars to upgrade the ba and even the Holden salesman was going on about how the commodore wouldn't be around for much longer. Ford need to announce something it is hurting the falcon nameplate.

How so? Are potential buyers of Falcon saying " well if it's not staying after 2016 "we won't buy one now, lets go to Mazda and buy a 3 or let's go buy a mid-size SUV". Falcon isn't losing sales to other large cars, it's losing sales to other types of cars.

[Gabbs]

Sure people are changing there buying habits and going to smaller cars but if someone was in the market for a commodore or falcon and they have in there mind that the falcon isn't going to be around for much longer do you not think that it would go to the bottom of the list.

[mik]

2016 is a long way off yet.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Gabbs

Sure people are changing there buying habits and going to smaller cars but if someone was in the market for a commodore or falcon and they have in there mind that the falcon isn't going to be around for much longer do you not think that it would go to the bottom of the list.

How do Ford win? There isn't a new Falcon until 2014. They have publically stated they will start drip feeding 2nd qrt/3qrt this year.
They don't want to ruin current sales anymore particularly if the 2014 model matches VF tech and looks better.

Now assuming they have actually finalised all plans from 2016 onwards, which is nearly 3+ years from now if it's a Sept release what does that do for sales now if it's something different to what we have now.

Holden have a new car being revealed tomorrow and due to gov funding requirments had to have a plan for production post 2016 put in place last year. No plan = no money. Ford didn't ask for a grant, so don't have to reveal anything. Sure the negative press is not helping, but Ford have never revealed anything so far out before and just maybe they still haven't finalised what they are doing. And just maybe Ford US has said don't say anything atm as it might involve their own local plans and until all the pieces are sorted we wait until WE'RE good and ready. If Ford US can kill 2 euro plants and 6000 workers overnight anything can happen and sentiment isn't always front and centre. They have proven they can be ruthless. Ford Aust. isn't bleeding like Europe.

Here's a tip, Ford Oz engineers are in conference calls with US, Thai, Chinese and EU divisions everyweek. And it's not all about drugs in sport. Australia may be an island however Ford Aust. engineers work on projects for all overseas divisions, are in charge of some groups within those divsions and are more intergrated internationally then we realise or Ford Oz publically state.

[R-Design]

Ok, ask Toyota of there'll be a next gen Carmry or BMW if there's a future for the 5 series. Do you think they'll tell you it's too early to make a comment?

We're not expecting full disclosure but knowing something's in the pipeline would be comforting to the market, their employees, suppliers, consumers, government etc....

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by R-Design

Ok, ask Toyota of there'll be a next gen Carmry or BMW if there's a future for the 5 series. Do you think they'll tell you it's too early to make a comment?

We're not expecting full disclosure but knowing something's in the pipeline would be comforting to the market, their employees, suppliers, consumers, government etc....

OK lets be totally hard-nosed and assume the absolute worse case scenario and all production ends in DEC 2016...and a version of "whatever" takes over....what will that do to sales now and until then? I sure don't think they'll go up.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

OK lets be totally hard-nosed and assume the absolute worse case scenario and all production ends in DEC 2016...and a version of "whatever" takes over....what will that do to sales now and until then? I sure don't think they'll go up.

Depends on what they're doing doesn't it? Makes sense that if Ford is working on something they'd be less afraid to discuss it than if they're not.

Some of the theories on here have me baffled.

[ryeman]

How can NO NEWS be GOOD NEWS for Ford fans?

[Gobes32]

The sentiment I received from that story is that Holden will be doing CKD Commodores in 2017. Which means Zeta is dead. Cruse is already CKD am I right? Expect a larger loss of jobs over the next few years as Holden become ASSEMBLERS not MANUFACTURERS.

[MWTB]

Am I the only one that saw the funny side of the model name VJ? Spose it can't be any worse than if they had gone with VD.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

The sentiment I received from that story is that Holden will be doing CKD Commodores in 2017. Which means Zeta is dead. Cruse is already CKD am I right? Expect a larger loss of jobs over the next few years as Holden become ASSEMBLERS not MANUFACTURERS.

If you actually read what Deveraux said, it was something like "GM are already working on it now". I don't think he actually said anything about Holden working on it, just GM.

So it may very well be a global vehicle. But I don't think the Cruze can be classified as CKD cause Holden stamp the panels and use local suppliers for other stuff, not a full CKD vehicle technically.

[csv8]

Camry 2016 http://wardsauto.com/plants-amp-prod...tion-past-2016

[BroadyFord]

I note that some here have said that the VF will instill confidence in the large car market in Australia etc. and that this is good news.

IMO this can only hurt Ford (and Falcon) by diverting what little attention there is on Falcon by potential buyers back to the Commodore. How many VF buyers would have considered a Falcon had there not been a VF Commodore? As unfortunate as it sounds, I can see monthly Ford sales dipping to somewhere between 500-800 by the end of the year.

Regarding post-2016, Ford could at least say that it's their intention to continue manufacturing here beyond 2016 without saying what would be built here. It would provide certainty and maybe plant a perception in the layperson's mind that Falcon is not "dead".

Out of curiosity, what was the process at Mitsubishi before they shut down the Adelaide plant? I.e. did they stay silent for years on end and then one day announce that was the end or did they specifically say that 380 is make or break for us and if it fails we're out of here?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I note that some here have said that the VF will instill confidence in the large car market in Australia etc. and that this is good news.

IMO this can only hurt Ford (and Falcon) by diverting what little attention there is on Falcon by potential buyers back to the Commodore. How many VF buyers would have considered a Falcon had there not been a VF Commodore? As unfortunate as it sounds, I can see monthly Ford sales dipping to somewhere between 500-800 by the end of the year.

Regarding post-2016, Ford could at least say that it's their intention to continue manufacturing here beyond 2016 without saying what would be built here. It would provide certainty and maybe plant a perception in the layperson's mind that Falcon is not "dead".


Out of curiosity, what was the process at Mitsubishi before they shut down the Adelaide plant? I.e. did they stay silent for years on end and then one day announce that was the end or did they specifically say that 380 is make or break for us and if it fails we're out of here?

A rising tide lifts all ships.

I think VF will be a positive, Falcon and Commodore are linked at the hip - any interest in the large car market will help Falcon. Especially if there is a bit of sticker shock which will send some prospective buyers to the local Ford dealer.

Large cars have a bit of an image problem, the new Commodore will help that and Falcon will benefit.

[Bossxr8]

I can't see VF stopping the trend of buyers moving away from large cars for very long, it might improve sales for 3 or 4 months but the trend downwards will continue on after the initial interest dissipates.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Did it even occur to anyone that the 2014 Falcon may be of greater significance than just a refresh?

Not unless they are spending a lot more money then they are admitting.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Out of curiosity, what was the process at Mitsubishi before they shut down the Adelaide plant? I.e. did they stay silent for years on end and then one day announce that was the end or did they specifically say that 380 is make or break for us and if it fails we're out of here?

Not sure on process but the difference with the 380 is it was the only thing coming out of the Mitsubishi plant. Ford at least have Falcon, Falcon ute and Territory.

You could see it was coming to an end because there was no difference between 380 models apart from very minor things. They obviously couldn't afford anything. They were discounted under $30k and still wouldn't sell. Less sales than the current Falcon. Its biggest selling year was 12,000 units.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Yep, transverse V6 has been around for a long time, GM even had FWD V8s for a while in Cadillac entry level models, unsure if they still do now.

It was called the Northstar V8, transverse V8 setup.

Oldsmobile had the Toronado....425-455ci FWD V8 Coupe...back in '66...


Over 600nm through the front wheels?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Not unless they are spending a lot more money then they are admitting.

They have to, VF will have self parking option like Focus...

On topic,

a 2017 Commodore based on Alpha is becoming a real possibility,
Autoblog have snapped the new larger Alpha based caddy CTS.
This could be the basis for the next gen Commodore and Chevrolet SS.
LINK
The car will come with V6 and V8 engines as well as a 2.0 DI Turbo I-4.....

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I can't see VF stopping the trend of buyers moving away from large cars for very long, it might improve sales for 3 or 4 months but the trend downwards will continue on after the initial interest dissipates.

Sadly I think you're right. If say the same tech appears in the next Captiva, Kuga or Terry then you have all this and the added practicality offered in a suv. I know my wife will "withdraw privledges" before having to sit in a lower height FG/VF if I trade in the Territory. She'll claim she can't see as well in front or dosen't feel as safe. It would be an interesting survey: how many go back to a sedan after having owned a good suv?

[In Focus]

I imagine sales of VE's will dip as people hold out for the new model. Either that, or massive discounts will be required to shift them. It's at least a four month lead time, which is a long time after a launch.