One-armed woman "driven" to despair.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by loftie

So what you're saying is because she only has one arm - she shouldn't have the choice of what she drives?

If she passes the test - the same test that is given to those with 2 arms - and doesn't fail using the same criteria as everyone else - then how can anyone tell her she can't drive a manual?

I have a family member that is blind (one eye removed, other has between 3-5% vision) and that person has a valid drivers license, and they recently sat the test to get a boat license....

Do you think my family member should be driving a car, or a boat??
Whether or not you think they should or shouldn't - according to the law and the valid license they hold - its legal.

Is it logical for a one armed woman to be driving a manual car - probably not... But who's to say she doesn't drive safer than some people with 2 arms???

Thats exactly what I am saying and your family member should not be on the road either if he can not see.

Life is like that....like I said I want to play in the NBL but it's not going to happen so should I scream discrimination, I also want to be brain surgeon, but I have parkinsons, so should I be able to do surgery on your brain....I would say no, so yes life is like that, not everyone can do everything, nor should they we all have to live within our own limitations.

Get used to it, it's not discrimination it's called life

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by flappist

I am still waiting for someone to actually show some legislation stating that one hand MUST remain on the steering wheel at all times.

And while you are at it.....

How does this now auto only driver turn on the headlights or windscreen wipers or whatever?

Very good point on the wipers and head lights, so may be she should not even be able to drive an auto then, public transport it is.

A person must have full control of their vehicle at all times, and I would say a reasonable person would not consider driving with their knees as having control over their vehicle. Also try it in your next driving test and see how you go, I doubt you would pass

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Why? Why does one arm=automatic? And why does it automatically make it dangerous for you to be driving beside her?

Able bodied or not, there are bad drivers out there. You have no information that indicates she's a bad driver...except she's missing an arm...which is no proof at all...she could be a better driver than you...

She's been given a licence...why should she have to pay 500 bucks for a 'special test' to prove she's capable? Only to have to drive an automatic anyway...it's insane...

Who said anything about 150km? We're talking about a woman who has one arm - not someone with a lead foot...

She has one arm, she can not change gears and keep a hand on the steering wheel.
Who has driven a car with their knees before? I have, and in doing so know for a fact I do not have full control of the vehicle, it isn't possible to take a 90 degree corner while maintaining consistent braking/throttle position while driving with your knees.
You can keep it in a straight line, manage minor turns in the road, but you can not say you have full control of the vehicle.

It is ridiculous that anyone would think otherwise, she would be safer more so in control of the vehicle if she was driving an auto, not rocket science, just plan common sense.

[PimpMyHubcap]

Originally Posted by flappist

I am still waiting for someone to actually show some legislation stating that one hand MUST remain on the steering wheel at all times.

And while you are at it.....

How does this now auto only driver turn on the headlights or windscreen wipers or whatever?

Thanks flappist. I knew we would have to get to this point soon. It has to be black and white with no grey areas.

My "one arm uses auto" stance has now changed to "one arm uses legs" stance. If you cant keep one hand on the wheel at all times then you shouldnt be driving.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Whats next, blind truckies?

wait, err ...umm, yeah ... ummm something.

more like impatient car drivers over taking trucks over double lines and around blind corners. thank god she never came near my tanker. i have 2 mates that only have one arm, and their vehicles have a knob on the steering wheel like a forklift and the blinkers and light controls are moved to the side that their arm is that still works and their cars have to be auto. i am glad they finally caught up with her. what has obviously happened with this woman is that her arm was injured after she obtained her manual licence and she continued to drive un noticed by the authorities, there is no way they would of just let her, simple.

[phillyc]

Maybe it isn't just the $500 test fee (which is a TOTAL GOV'T RORT), but if the lady isn't allowed to drive a manual. Perhaps, she might ALSO need to buy an AUTOMATIC car.

Apart, from the one-armed bit we really don't know much about her or finances. Most probably we shouldn't either. It is her business.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by StealthAu

She has one arm, she can not change gears and keep a hand on the steering wheel.
Who has driven a car with their knees before? I have, and in doing so know for a fact I do not have full control of the vehicle, it isn't possible to take a 90 degree corner while maintaining consistent braking/throttle position while driving with your knees.
You can keep it in a straight line, manage minor turns in the road, but you can not say you have full control of the vehicle.

It is ridiculous that anyone would think otherwise, she would be safer more so in control of the vehicle if she was driving an auto, not rocket science, just plan common sense.

You change gears while going around a ninety degree corner...? I know I don't.

This is the only information I could find regarding the issue at hand.

The criteria for an unconditional licence are
NOT met:
􀁏 If there is amputation or congenital
absence of a limb (whole or part) required
to operate a hand or foot control; or
􀁏 If there is ankylosis or chronic loss of joint
movement of sufficient severity that control
of vehicle is not safe; or
􀁏 If there is rotation of the cervical spine
such that it is chronically restricted to only
a few degrees of movement.
A conditional licence may be granted by the
Driver Licensing Authority, taking into account
the opinion of the treating doctor/GP, and the
nature of the driving task, and subject to
periodic review (if the condition is progressive)
taking into account factors such as:
􀁏 Report of a practical driver assessment*;
􀁏 Any modification to the vehicle;
􀁏 The benefit of treatments, prostheses or
other devices.
*All disabled motorcyclists will need to be
assessed by a driver assessor.
A practical driver assessment is helpful for
most final decisions.

This part is probably more relevant...

14.2.10 Limb control. A loss of control of the limbs caused by paralysis, paresis or other neurological conditions may not necessarily
prevent a person from driving safely. However, vehicle controls may require modification and a conditional licence may be
recommended.

source
http://www.austroads.com.au/cms/AFTD...Aug%202006.pdf

Legally she can't have an unconditional licence, however, she can hold a conditional licence. All that is required is that which is above...a doctor tells you that you can or can't drive, the Department of Transport gives final decision on the matter...you may or may not have to have vehicle controls added...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226064647632



This scares the crap out of me as she was tested and they thought it was ok for her to steer with her legs during gear changes?? WTF

I`m all for people with disabilities doing everyday things but when there are cars with automatic gearboxes then common sense should prevail.

Come on. She has one arm... and is pregnant. Least the government can do is gift her this special test.

And offer some assistance in swapping her car for an auto one.

[Polyal]

Shes obviously capable.

You know it is possible to drive a manual with one arm. You dont change gears while turning, which depending on the speed etc you shouldnt anyway as you should be ready for whats coming ahead before you get there.

Its doable, and if she thinks she can, and she has proven she can whats the problem?

Its not the ideal situation but there are worse out there. If she thought she was going to die everytime she went out of the drive way I think she would have managed to get herself a suitable car by now.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

Thanks flappist. I knew we would have to get to this point soon. It has to be black and white with no grey areas.

My "one arm uses auto" stance has now changed to "one arm uses legs" stance. If you cant keep one hand on the wheel at all times then you shouldnt be driving.

When I was in my teens I used to drive from Maryborough to Rockhampton and back (about 800km) 6 days a week for a couple of years in my XC then XD panelvans.

This is before mobile phones or in car sound systems and the only radio stations available were ABC and two country music stations.

It was very boring so I used to play games like "drive all the way without touching the brake" or "drive all the way without touching the steering wheel with my hands".

I made it many many times and made it with one or two "faults" every single time I tried.

Practice makes perfect and if this person has been using one arm for everything for all these years I suspect she is rather good at it.

After all you can't do things that require two arms if you only have one can you?

Just ask Jack Newton or Bethany Hamilton et al.

[Polyal]

And add to it she has been doing so since 2001...no mention of prangs or anything.

I know plenty of "able" people who cant drive for bat poo and no one says a word.

[PimpMyHubcap]

Originally Posted by flappist

When I was in my teens I used to drive from Maryborough to Rockhampton and back (about 800km) 6 days a week for a couple of years in my XC then XD panelvans.

This is before mobile phones or in car sound systems and the only radio stations available were ABC and two country music stations.

It was very boring so I used to play games like "drive all the way without touching the brake" or "drive all the way without touching the steering wheel with my hands".

I made it many many times and made it with one or two "faults" every single time I tried.

Practice makes perfect and if this person has been using one arm for everything for all these years I suspect she is rather good at it.

After all you can't do things that require two arms if you only have one can you?

Just ask Jack Newton or Bethany Hamilton et al.

Same as the drive from Weipa to Cairns. 600kays of dirt. Did that around 30 times back in the late 80`s but you had to concentrate the whole way. That "practice" made me watch the road 100% whenever I drive.

I will still say that she wont pass a test now and she would have had a sympathetic tester back in 1993 when she got her license. It`s only now she has been caught up with (yes, the license says she is legal) and must now comply.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Maybe it isn't just the $500 test fee (which is a TOTAL GOV'T RORT), but if the lady isn't allowed to drive a manual. Perhaps, she might ALSO need to buy an AUTOMATIC car.

Apart, from the one-armed bit we really don't know much about her or finances. Most probably we shouldn't either. It is her business.

So yo saying if she cant afford to buy an Auto, then she should be able to keep manual.

I can't afford new tyres, I have been driving on bald tyres for 3 years with no accidents!! I just drive slower and leave a larger gap ahead of me, So I should be allowed to continue driving on bald tyres since I can't afford new tyres and have 'proven' I am a good driver due to having no accidents.

Her saying she 'cant afford' to buy an automatic is hardly an excuse.

Sure she may of had no accidents, but how many near misses has she had? We don't know. She may almost sideswipe someone weekly.
She may of only had no accident thanks to the drivers she has almost hit have been able to suddenly swerve away from her and avoid an accident.
We don't know.
But I know it is not a good idea for a one armed person to drive manual.

[Polyal]

ZOMG ATTACK OF THE KILLER ONE ARMED LADY

If she was continuously creating trouble police, insurance etc would know about it.

This is nothing more than a TT or ACA type article.

I bet shes perfected handbrake turn parking aswell.

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

You change gears while going around a ninety degree corner...? I know I don't.

It isn't about what you normally do, I am talking emergency situations.

It is a ridiculous argument, if you think someone with one hand can operate a manual safely you are a fool, simple as that.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by StealthAu

It isn't about what you normally do, I am talking emergency situations.

It is a ridiculous argument, if you think someone with one hand can operate a manual safely you are a fool, simple as that.

Excuse me?

I don't think your name calling is necessary...or warranted. I have an opinion that differs to yours, doesn't make it any less valid.

My response was also the legal requirements behind it...if she's covered all those off...it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else thinks for that matter...

[Polyal]

IN an emergency typically you clutch in and slam brake...engine braking might take to long, granted if you are super quick it will help but emergency's tend to be random in nature.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

How many of you put your knee under the steering wheel to open a drink with both hands whilst driving? Same theory applies...just dressed differently...

.

I probably do that 3 times a year. Normally a drink can wait till the next set of traffic lights or intersection.
But I change gears 3 times before I reach the end of my street.
I cant say I open 3 drink bottles by the end of my street.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I probably do that 3 times a year. Normally a drink can wait till the next set of traffic lights or intersection.
But I change gears 3 times before I reach the end of my street.
I cant say I open 3 drink bottles by the end of my street.

OK so you get out of your driveway, reverse, into street.

Into first, then second then third.

Corner coming up, T intersection, get there by maybe coming down to second or just come to stop and slip into first. (oh you indicated as normal before going into second).

Go around corner and cycle through gears.

Which part of that did you need two hands for?

[StealthAu]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Excuse me?

I don't think your name calling is necessary...or warranted. I have an opinion that differs to yours, doesn't make it any less valid.

My response was also the legal requirements behind it...if she's covered all those off...it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else thinks for that matter...

YES! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, my opinion is it is foolish to think a one armed person is capable of safe operation of a manual vehicle on a daily basis.

As I said before, no one can say they are in full control of their vehicle while driving with their knees, maybe my example wasn't spelt out clearly enough before. If she is driving along, goes to change gears so takes the wheel with her knees and out of no where a kid jumps out in front of her. You can't swerve to avoid something like this with your knees.

[RedHotGT]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Thats exactly what I am saying and your family member should not be on the road either if he can not see.

Life is like that....like I said I want to play in the NBL but it's not going to happen so should I scream discrimination, I also want to be brain surgeon, but I have parkinsons, so should I be able to do surgery on your brain....I would say no, so yes life is like that, not everyone can do everything, nor should they we all have to live within our own limitations.

Get used to it, it's not discrimination it's called life

I agree - my family member should not be on the road... Doesn't change the fact that he holds a valid drivers license that says he can do it...

Your NBL / Brain Surgeon arguments are flawed - Using your example - you must not have the necessary skills to play NBL nor have you completed the studies to become a brain surgeon.

The 'one armed lady' already has a drivers license... and there is no law saying you must have 2 arms to drive... (if there is - please post the reference - as flappist has already requested)

It is fair to expect that she needs to pass a medical test (VicRoads call it a Medical review) - as she is changing states, and each state has a slightly different set of rules.

If she can't pass their test using their criteria (whether she has 2 arms, 1 arm, or no arms) then restrictions should be made...
If she can pass the test using their criteria (whether she has 2 arms, 1 arm or no arms) then she should be able to carry on driving the way she has previously....

I don't necessary agree with the whole thing - but if there are no laws or regulations being breached or broken - I can't see how anyone can kick up a fuss?

[GTP owner]

This has been an eye opener of a thread for far our-comments! I know a fella who can drive - he lacks BOTH arms! But he has a modified vehicle. Amazing!!!! (note the sarcasm) If I were to follow the arguments here he would be forever committed to the buses.
It seems there are a few members here that only drive with half a brain. But they are still allowed to drive (and post on here) Amazing !!!!
Flappist has it right when he mentions the rule about two hands - no-one has proven him wrong. And if she has managed to drive for all of these years (including with a trailer) without causing problems, why are we on her case now? And $500 to sit some special test - no way. What a huge rip-off.

[BENT_8]

Good luck to her i say.

Unfortunately though i think she may be looking for an automatic soon as i doubt she'll get the nod, hell, i cant even get a MR truck license as i've been tested and proven to be slightly color blind.
God knows why being color blind is frowned upon...

[PimpMyHubcap]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

This has been an eye opener of a thread for far our-comments! I know a fella who can drive - he lacks BOTH arms! But he has a modified vehicle. Amazing!!!! (note the sarcasm) If I were to follow the arguments here he would be forever committed to the buses.
It seems there are a few members here that only drive with half a brain. But they are still allowed to drive (and post on here) Amazing !!!!
Flappist has it right when he mentions the rule about two hands - no-one has proven him wrong. And if she has managed to drive for all of these years (including with a trailer) without causing problems, why are we on her case now? And $500 to sit some special test - no way. What a huge rip-off.

Your point?? If that article would have mentioned a modified vehicle then I wouldnt have started the thread.

The topic is someone who could quite easily (but not safely in the spirit of safe driving - two hands remember) drive an automatic and not have to take the ONLY hand on the steering wheel off it.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

Your point?? If that article would have mentioned a modified vehicle then I wouldnt have started the thread.

The topic is someone who could quite easily (but not safely in the spirit of safe driving - two hands remember) drive an automatic and not have to take the ONLY hand on the steering wheel off it.

Your missing the point, its about self esteem and other non measurable factors.

If she has been doing it for the past 10 years and hasnt threatened lives etc then whats the problem?

Shes as dangerous as any eldery cit or P plater and anyone else in between.

[PimpMyHubcap]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Your missing the point, its about self esteem and other non measurable factors.

If she has been doing it for the past 10 years and hasnt threatened lives etc then whats the problem?

Shes as dangerous as any eldery cit or P plater and anyone else in between.

The point is she should have either a modification or an automatic car to make it safe for her (and others) to drive. I dont understand the self-esteem when there are automatics available. Your saying it`s tougher to drive a manual?

Using your examples it`s ok for an epileptic to drive? No, they have to be tested for frequency and then assessed. This is the same situation where she needs to be tested. I`m thinking she knows she wont pass the test so she has tried to stir up some sympathy

Originally Posted by loftie

It is fair to expect that she needs to pass a medical test (VicRoads call it a Medical review) - as she is changing states, and each state has a slightly different set of rules.

If she can't pass their test using their criteria (whether she has 2 arms, 1 arm, or no arms) then restrictions should be made...
If she can pass the test using their criteria (whether she has 2 arms, 1 arm or no arms) then she should be able to carry on driving the way she has previously....

I agree loftie as to her being able to carry on driving if she passes the test but I wouldnt get in the car with her (same as I wont with my epileptic friend)

[Tucool]

All the arguments seem to be about her rights ,as far as I'm concerned her rights have nothing to do with it, Her capabilites are under scutiny here and just because she has been lucky not to had an accident her fault or not does not come into it, I live just down the road from her and would not like to be on the same piece road at anytime.Just as a side note where we live there are countless one lane roads that have to be negotiated by leaving the road on to our famous WA gravel!! .

[Polyal]

I agree it seems odd, but she has proven previously that she can do it, so if she passes a test then whats the problem?

Its in the paper because its an emotive nothing story to get people talking.

Whats funny is if she had the $500, passed the test then it wouldnt be news would it. The test is there to do its job, its the systems decision not ours.

Lighten up guys, im sure she has some ethics about her and if she thought she was endangering others or herself then she wouldnt bother. Granted some people cant let go but if you are able to do it then whatever.

Live and let live..

[deesun]

I wonder if she contacted the WA Roads Dept before she moved there and asked what she would need to do to get her licence there. She could drive in QLD for the next 50 years no problem. Of course if she needed a rego inspection on her car and it needed some requirement that it didn't need in QLD would we be hearing about it in the news. QLD seem to have the slackest rego and licence laws of any state.

[rappie]

I know a woman who is about 3' tall with NO arms and drives all over the place in an auto falcon wagon

She seems to do ok

why should anyone have to pay an extra $500 because of a
disability