New car banned from being sold only in Vic.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yes but if each state made thier own rules it would make selling a new car in this country impossible and prohibitive....
ADRs are called "Australian" design rules... not Victorian.
This is a bug bear I have with the states making their own rules up which are more restrictive of what the federal government says.
Which is something that isnt allowed.

Road rules etc are all state controlled I believe, the Federal Government (on this like many others) only have as much power as the states give them.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Burnout

This is the great failure of ANCAP as as buyers tool when considering the procurement of a car......
Consider, for a moment you are dawdling along at 75km in an 80km speed limited roadway, your are driving your ANCAP 5 star designated Beemer and you are hit head on by a W900 Kenworth doing 70km in the other direction, the Kennie has 22tonne on the back.The Kennie has never been ANCAP tested and is old enough not have ever been if they ever tested trucks... Forget for a moment who crossed the center-line of the roadway.
Consider the occupants of the Beemer, 3 of whom are under 16old........

Now tell me and everyone else just how good ANCAP is..... or insert another 5 Star Car a Merc, or........a Jag or .. a Rolls.

As a guide ANCAP is only good for one thing... and one thing only, its a guide for manufacturers only and Govt and of no value to anyone else at all.

Bang!!! Give this man a cigar. You've saved me typing exactly the same thing. Driving a vehicle into a solid, immoveable object (per ANCAP tests) only produces a very specific set of data. It totally ignores the physics involved when a collision is made with another vehicle.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Road rules etc are all state controlled I believe, the Federal Government (on this like many others) only have as much power as the states give them.

Pardon? The states gives power to the Federal Government?
Ah... sorry nope.

Australia Road rules were laid down by the Federal government about 10yrs ago.
Each state adopted them so that the road rules were the SAME all over Australia.

The ADRs is what governs the design of cars here.... I do believe in some states that they have over ridden old ADRs on things like seat belts on cars built to the orginal ADRs.. etc which is wrong... same with emissions.

[SteveJH]

It's state government legislation though, not federal government legislation.

The states can change it if they want. The federal government would probably wave the GST stick though. (Ie. do what we say or we will take your money off you)

[falconnut]

pretty simple kneejerk reaction to make ESC a requirement for sale in vic.

That cherry needs more icing on the cake than just ESC to make it safe to drive.

Airbags, abs and all the technical wizardry under the sun will not make up for its horribly cheap chassis.

Imagine this little thing vs a massive 4wd or truck? No chance.

I encourage you all to watch the video if you have not already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVEU3-ZbIq8

My god that frame warp is disastrous.

[jpblue1000]

the chery is safe to drive, it meets all the ADR's that help it achieve 3 stars same rating as a AU2 forte, its how safe either car is to crash that the rating advises on, and despite its only 3 star rating, and given australias 'fleet' is amongst the oldest inthe world then it probably out performs a large amount of cars on our roads, geminis, barinas, camiras, colts, fiestas, kingswoods and gtho's or whatever. solidity and bulk dont help star ratings.
As for road rules being universal across the country, speed limits, hook turns, left on red, lie markings and roundabout rules vary across the country.
ADR's govern what minimum level a component must reach, if a car does not have a component it does not need to meet that ADR. unless an ADR specifically demands it.
the chery is a 10k car, made to a budget, for those who cannot afford or are not prepared to spend more on a different car, as our suburbs are so big and spread out and public transport so woefull cars are the best option for most, even the poor, and like usuall the poor take the biggest risk by purchasing chery or similar chineese rubbish or even Au2 falcons.

[falconnut]

Its ironic because i could have bought one of these had i kept my old car and saved.

However i would rather drive my old beater than a chinese hyundai ripoff.

That being said the chinese can probably make better cars, as you said this is made on a budget and reflects that.

I still think vic's over sensitive ESC requirement is a bit silly when other cars are obviously sold there without esc.

WTF does ESC have any buiness doing in a %100 offroad road legal car anyway? Stupid.

[monte.b]

Must be a lot of bad drivers in Victoria cause they cant control their cars,they need the car to control their bad driving ,Pile of rubbish car anyway ,should all be crushed and sent back from where they came

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Burnout

This is the great failure of ANCAP as as buyers tool when considering the procurement of a car......
Consider, for a moment you are dawdling along at 75km in an 80km speed limited roadway, your are driving your ANCAP 5 star designated Beemer and you are hit head on by a W900 Kenworth doing 70km in the other direction, the Kennie has 22tonne on the back.The Kennie has never been ANCAP tested and is old enough not have ever been if they ever tested trucks... Forget for a moment who crossed the center-line of the roadway.
Consider the occupants of the Beemer, 3 of whom are under 16old........

Now tell me and everyone else just how good ANCAP is..... or insert another 5 Star Car a Merc, or........a Jag or .. a Rolls.

As a guide ANCAP is only good for one thing... and one thing only, its a guide for manufacturers only and Govt and of no value to anyone else at all.

5-star ANCAP Rated car *might* had a chance to swerve -even onto an unsealed shoulder- and swing back because of stability control.

ANCAP isn't about guarantees it's about statistics. Higher the ANCAP the higher the statistical chance you will either survive or be less hurt in an accident. I think it's sensible to encourage people to pick the highest rated car they can afford .. Even secondhand.

As for the Chery? I remember a number of years ago GM was thinking of suing them for copying one of their small cars by typical reverse-engineering methods .. Most of which was cosmetic and none of the actual useful engineering - like safety features - was carried over ..

[FGII-XR6]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Yes but if each state made thier own rules it would make selling a new car in this country impossible and prohibitive....
ADRs are called "Australian" design rules... not Victorian.
This is a bug bear I have with the states making their own rules up which are more restrictive of what the federal government says.
Which is something that isnt allowed.

that's the point they are allowed, you may not like it but they can impose more restrictive rules, they just can't make rules that will lessen the restriction of the federal rules. federal always over rides only if it is more stringent. you may have noticed in my post that all states will have the same requirement for stability control in November Victoria is just moving sooner

[Tysonv48]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

the chery is safe to drive, it meets all the ADR's that help it achieve 3 stars same rating as a AU2 forte, its how safe either car is to crash that the rating advises on, and despite its only 3 star rating, and given australias 'fleet' is amongst the oldest inthe world then it probably out performs a large amount of cars on our roads, geminis, barinas, camiras, colts, fiestas, kingswoods and gtho's or whatever. solidity and bulk dont help star ratings.
As for road rules being universal across the country, speed limits, hook turns, left on red, lie markings and roundabout rules vary across the country.
ADR's govern what minimum level a component must reach, if a car does not have a component it does not need to meet that ADR. unless an ADR specifically demands it.
the chery is a 10k car, made to a budget, for those who cannot afford or are not prepared to spend more on a different car, as our suburbs are so big and spread out and public transport so woefull cars are the best option for most, even the poor, and like usuall the poor take the biggest risk by purchasing chery or similar chineese rubbish or even Au2 falcons.

Au forte scored 24.2 (0.3 off an ancap of 4 stars) the chery however only scored 19.

Both are ancap of 3 stars but there is a tremendous difference between the two marks.

[Djrystofer]

Atleast we're doing something to aid safety on the roads, apart from speed camera's of course, the ultimate in road safety.

[csv8]

Suzuki Alto is $11,990 drive away and has stability control.
http://www.suzukiqld.com.au/alto/car-safety

[Djrystofer]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

the chery is safe to drive, it meets all the ADR's that help it achieve 3 stars same rating as a AU2 forte, its how safe either car is to crash that the rating advises on, and despite its only 3 star rating, and given australias 'fleet' is amongst the oldest inthe world then it probably out performs a large amount of cars on our roads, geminis, barinas, camiras, colts, fiestas, kingswoods and gtho's or whatever. solidity and bulk dont help star ratings.
As for road rules being universal across the country, speed limits, hook turns, left on red, lie markings and roundabout rules vary across the country.
ADR's govern what minimum level a component must reach, if a car does not have a component it does not need to meet that ADR. unless an ADR specifically demands it.

Pedestrian safety plays a large part in the safety rating aswell, which may be why the older cars scored so poorly, and newer smaller cars with crumple zones and all the other electronics scored higher.
And let's be honest, which would you rather be in if you were to crash, an AU, or the cherry?

[mike_nofx]

What ratings would vehicles like the H1 Hummer, or the Marauder (bomb resistant car on top gear!) get in an ANCAP test?

Probably not more than 3 stars, if that.

But would you rather crash in a Marauder or a Chery-bomb.

[last fairlane]

A little off topic
Does anyone here remember about 1977
you could not buy an HX Kingswood in NSW
unless you took the low spec motor
that had all the polution gear on it
just like the Californian rules
also with different rules for different states
what about blood alcahol concentration
0.05 in Victoria and 0.08 in Queensland
plus speed limits etc
they do have different rules in the one country
just my recollections

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Djrystofer

Pedestrian safety plays a large part in the safety rating aswell, which may be why the older cars scored so poorly, and newer smaller cars with crumple zones and all the other electronics scored higher.
And let's be honest, which would you rather be in if you were to crash, an AU, or the cherry?

Oh I agree Id prefer to be in a 3 star rated falcon than the chery, as today Im more likely to be hitting a 4 or 5 star rated smaller car giving me a statistical advantage, my response really was to plays devils advocate to what is usually a very one sided, blinded, rhetorical discussion.
In reality Id like to be in a 5 star rated car that is dynamically able to avoid the collision if possible but if unfortunately not will enhance my chances of surviving, I cannot afford new euro luxury, nor a mack truckso I take my chances in my fun to drive daily! and laught at those in the chery for being boring in an ugly car paying too much for long term maintenance and I have to guess worst residual value. But not becuase they only get 3 stars in Ancap testing

[zilo]

Originally Posted by xisled

Here is why the Cherry can not be first registered in Victoria.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...ityControl.htm

Please note: From 1 January 2011, when new vehicles are first registered in Victoria, they must be fitted with ESC. This requirement applies to all passenger cars, off-road passenger vehicles, and forward-control passenger vehicles (e.g. passenger vans).

No esc needed for utes and vans...ask Great Wall about that


As for the 3 stars ancap I would rather be in a 1 star rated semi trailer than a 5 star rated Cherry ...people don't understand the rating system, that's for sure.

[flappist]

This thread is a complete giggle. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this "unsafe" car yet if someone were to suggest that they are WAY safer than all the old V8 falcons there would be a riot.

So, as all of you non Victorians are aware we all had a meeting about this and as it has been demonstrated that Victorians are not only the worst drivers in Australia if not the world as can be seen by the number of speed cameras and other draconian road rules still not lowering the road toll it has been decided that an experiment should be run in Victoria for the next 50 years to see if the situation can be improved.

As of the 1st April 2013:

1) No Victorian can buy any car that does not comply with the P plate restrictions. i.e. No V8s, turbos or whatever even if you have been licensed for 30 years.

2) All Victorian cars must be 100 limited like trucks. Any car that cannot be limited must be deregistered and exported to the "free territories" or crushed. Registration will be increased by $2000 per year to compensate for lost speed camera revenue.

3) All non P plate compliant cars must be, by 1st April 2016 either exported or surrendered for crushing.

4) Motorsport will be banned outright with all tracks demolished and turned into petting zoos and folk music festival sites.

5) All motorsport and "hoon" programming will be prohibited from the media and all internet connections filtered to prevent "hoons" from communicating on forums.

6) Future laws restricting Victorian driving will no longer require parliamentary process and can be enacted by specialist experts such as the "Pedestrian Council". The onus of proof in all road matters will be placed on the defendant.

After 50 years a committee will be formed to review the results and ignore anything that does not fit the agenda as a statistical blip.

There may be some push back against this from Victorians but historically all that will happen is a couple of marches in Spring St before popping off for a Latte and a few complaints in the newspaper and on the net (which will of course be filtered out as it is "hoonism"). After that it will just be accepted under the "He only hits me because he loves me and it is my fault anyway" mentality.

Remember, this is only Victoria and the rest of Australia will continue as normal providing a standard against which the "Victorian Experiment" can be compared unless of course it does not show the appropriate results in which case it will be ignored.

[Auslandau]

I am sure that 98% of these are being considered. Except for the 100k limit thing. 80k's is looking good. What scares me more is that someone from Vic Govco will look at this as very serious ideas indeed.

[XBROO]

Yeah flappist stop given them ideas. Me personly I couldn't give a crap about any rating on a car. I buy a car on looks and if I think it's a nice car to drive. Also that it's fits my daily needs. Look over my time I have driven cars with no brakes, rust hanging out of them everywhere, some I had to sit on a pillow because there were springs hanging out. And I never had an accident in them, so I just rely on being attentive and drive to the conditions. I'm also one of these people that won't buy new and buy something a couple years old. As I can't justify the amount you lose on a new car, and like taken avantage of old owners assessories they have put on.

[2011G6E]

ANCAP and Star Ratings?

Guess those of us who choose deliberately to drive old cars should be quaking in fear every time we take to the roads then if that's all that matters to some people...I have a sister-in-law who was literally almost frightened witless on even a short trip in reasonably heavy traffic to the shops in our 1982 Celica. She normally refuses to get into any car that doesn't have a minimum of six airbags...

That's no way to live your life...

[AussieCJ7]

Originally Posted by Burnout

This is the great failure of ANCAP as as buyers tool when considering the procurement of a car......
Consider, for a moment you are dawdling along at 75km in an 80km speed limited roadway, your are driving your ANCAP 5 star designated Beemer and you are hit head on by a W900 Kenworth doing 70km in the other direction, the Kennie has 22tonne on the back.The Kennie has never been ANCAP tested and is old enough not have ever been if they ever tested trucks... Forget for a moment who crossed the center-line of the roadway.
Consider the occupants of the Beemer, 3 of whom are under 16old........

Now tell me and everyone else just how good ANCAP is..... or insert another 5 Star Car a Merc, or........a Jag or .. a Rolls.

As a guide ANCAP is only good for one thing... and one thing only, its a guide for manufacturers only and Govt and of no value to anyone else at all.

Not sure I see your point here ????

Look at the summer nats photos of that poor VL that was wrecked. If that had of been a current model falcon or commodore then whil the car was still wrecked the amount of damage to the rear passenger cell would have been very very different. Now put a chery in the same collision vs a Falcon and I dont want to sit in either but if had to have a choice it would not have been the chery

ANCAP has raised the public awareness on the technology in a new car that contributes to reducing the impact and risk in a collision This puts pressure on the manufactures to raise their standards this has a flow on effect on how much tax payers $$$ goes to road trauma. So ANCAP has done nothing for the consumer ???


We can never eliminate accidents and road deaths but we can give people the best chance of reduced injury with better designed cars and ANCAP raises awareness to what is a better designed car so bring it on and let it evolve to be even more comprehensive in its testing

If only we had the same level of bench marking and testing driver skill and increase the skill of the general public we would be even better off but hey one soap box per day

[Joshmcmillan]

As mentioned, the fact that a Cherry received a 3 star ANCAP rating does NOT mean that it is anywhere similar at all to an AU Falcon which also received a 3 star rating. ANCAP ratings across classes cannot be compared. For a little tiny death trap, it's not the worst thing possible, is what 3 stars would mean. A 5 star fiesta would mean that for a little tiny car, they've done a good job making it safe. In comparison, a 5-Star FG Falcon would be far safer.

NRMA once published a detailed list of statistics based upon REAL crash statistics, which also separated personal and pedestrian safety ratings. It has been taken down and replaced by a worse system, but this showed a true comparison of safety between all classes over the last 20+ years.

A few things I remember noting because of family/friends owning certain cars was that a 2004 Toyota Echo was similarly safe to an EA Falcon. Every single model of commodore since the early 90's was 1 rating worse than the equivalent Falcon. The 2005 LS Focus and equivalent model VW Golf were the first small-mid sized cars that were in any way compatible safety wise to a larger car.


Also, the post about falcon crash test in 2006 getting 3 stars was a bit misleading. The AU Falcon was crash tested in 2006, meaning that a 1998 Ford Falcon recieved 3 stars in the 2006 large car safety category. Compared to the BA, BAII, and BF scores of 4 star.

[Olbucko]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

What ratings would vehicles like the H1 Hummer, or the Marauder (bomb resistant car on top gear!) get in an ANCAP test?

Probably not more than 3 stars, if that.

But would you rather crash in a Marauder or a Chery-bomb.

Depends what you hit, if you smashed into another car you would be far better off in the Marauder. the other car and it's occupants would absorb most the energy from the collision and would probably be killed. However if you crashed into a solid object like a large tree or cliff face you may be better off in the Chery-bomb, It's body would crumple and absorb much of the force of the crash, saving the occupants. The occupants of the Marauder would probably be killed by the high G forces because the body of the Marauder would would not absorb much of the energy which would be transfered to the bodies of the occupants instead, tearing their internal organs. For example, if you drove a tank into a cliff face at 80 kph the tank would bounce off relatively undamaged but the occupants would be turned to jelly.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Olbucko

Depends what you hit, if you smashed into another car you would be far better off in the Marauder. the other car and it's occupants would absorb most the energy from the collision and would probably be killed. However if you crashed into a solid object like a large tree or cliff face you may be better off in the Chery-bomb, It's body would crumple and absorb much of the force of the crash, saving the occupants. The occupants of the Marauder would probably be killed by the high G forces because the body of the Marauder would would not absorb much of the energy which would be transfered to the bodies of the occupants instead, tearing their internal organs. For example, if you drove a tank into a cliff face at 80 kph the tank would bounce off relatively undamaged but the occupants would be turned to jelly.

Well what are you statistically more likely to hit? (...I have no idea...)

If its something like 80% chance of hitting a car, 20% chance of hitting a cliff face or solid tree.... Marauder is the better option.

Also, (and this is well off topic now) there would be trees out there that if hit by a chery-bomb at 80km/h would see the car desintegrated, whereas the marauder may flatten it. Same for buildings/houses, at 10Ton and with RPG-proof windows, the building would be the crumple zone:

[2011G6E]

Many years back when we had the XC Fairmont GXL we had a close call with a woman who didn't give way. She was driving some little hatchback, a new car.She appeared from between parked cars in front of us, and I slammed on the brakes, screetching to a stop in a cloud of tyre smoke...We stopped almost with the bumper overriders touching her drivers door. We reversed back, and I got out to see if she was OK as she was sitting there staring at the front of our Fairmont, white as a sheet. She honestly got out and started tearing strips off me, saying we were "irresponsible" to be driving such a "huge old car" in todays traffic where we could "squash" people in "modern safe cars!". I got back in and drove away.

Too bad lady...you've just bought into the lie that your little tinny bucket of bolts has a 5 star rating and that makes you absolutely safe from everything...but that's just predicated on everyone else driving a car exactly the same as yours so impacts are predictable in every case.

In the real world however, you share the road with vehicles of all sizes, and you just have to hope that you hit or are hit by something of a similar size, otherwise all the stars in the world won't help when you fail to give way to someone in, say, a 200 series Landcruiser...

[Rev28K]

How do the little weirdies that I like make it through rego. Stuff like Clubmans & Morgan 4 wheelers.

I can understand Cobras and GT40 replicas as being individually constructed. Caterhams & Elfins are legal. PRB have been very quiet. I think that Skelta were legal as long as their Honda S2k engine was legal. Ariel Atoms may still be legal, don't think their N/A engine complies with latest euro emissions. Palatov would like to sell their DP2 out here.

Don't care about cheap Chinese or Indian cars but I'd love to see a continuation Chevron or Ginetta legal in Vic.

[xisled]

What about the 2008 smart Fourtwo car. It is around the same size as the cherry yet scored a 4 star. Not all small cars are death traps.

[Olbucko]

Originally Posted by xisled

What about the 2008 smart Fourtwo car. It is around the same size as the cherry yet scored a 4 star. Not all small cars are death traps.

With a crush zone of about a foot in a smart fourtwo I would think that your chances of surviving a head on would be a bit slim. The cabin may stay intact but the passengers would be subjected to 2 or 3 times the G forces that they would be subjected to in a large car with a bonnet 4 or 5 foot long.

In a head on between a smart fourtwo and a Cherry I think the smart four two would win by a Knockout.