Covid 19 -

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Most people just have basic symptoms and then they are fine.

But that's not true either

https://www.cardiovascularbusiness.c...amage-recovery
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/e...228-5/fulltext

[Tickford.]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And no one knows the long term effects yet. It seems very hit and miss. Some people will have no effects, basically no sign they even had it. Yet a few get hit like a tonne of bricks. Most people just have basic symptoms and then they are fine. Some take ages to recover. It's all over the shop.

Got a work colleague who is a avid cyclist. Cycles 13km's each way to and from work everyday (that's nothing to him). The bloke is very fit and looks after his health, and his diet as if he is a pro athlete.

He tested positive to COVID-19 on 14th July. Only symptom was a temperature. He was back at work this week after being cleared by NHHS, and I had a chat to him yesterday about how he's doing. He said COVID has definitely effected his fitness. He is more out of breath when he rides to work, and when riding back home. Heart and breathing rate is up there he reckons. He kept up his fitness by cycling while in iso as he has a machine at home, so lack of exercise was not the issue.

I was very surprised to hear this. This guy is one of the fittest people I know. If someone like him can be effected in such a way, then the average person (me) maybe in serious trouble. I haven't even been on a cycle for some 15+ years!!

Your average person who has recovered from COVID may not actually know if, or how much, their health has been effected because they may not be exercise/fitness junkies like the bloke above. And got nothing to compare their pre and post COVID health status.

He maybe able to recover his pre COVID fitness level but it will take a lot of work he thinks. Bloke was one of those sceptics of COVID, is also a vegetarian, and one of those climate change people. Yeah, I know. He's view of COVID is very different now. But unfortunately his view on vegetarian and climate change hasn't changed so I will continue to distance myself from him at work. ()

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by leesa

But that's not true either

Yes, I was watching a lady interviewed that was a marathon runner etc. etc. and she contracted early March.
Her story confirmed the changes in her body. 40 odd and high fitness level but the things she 'complains' about now are not isolated to her lungs

As mentioned here earlier, every organ is probably affected, even life span for these people. Again mentioned here, nobody knows yet the whole story.
Nasty and certainly not a common cold.

Stay safe

[HIPO]

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/...eath_Guide.pdf

Gotta like the "Assumed " covid death part... wonder how many have been marked down like that.............

[Mr_G6ET]

Similar to NZ suspicion(s):
Novel coronavirus detected on imported frozen chicken wings from Brazil

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1197607.shtml

Change topic:
First dog to test positive for COVID-19 in North Carolina dies

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dog-test-p...ry?id=72322728

[T3rminator]

LOL Americold conspiracy now appearing. So NZ suspect their 2nd wave could be linked to the Americold storage site in Wellington. Our Americold storage facility in Laverton has had a couple of cases. Apparently no link between the two. Would be interesting to know if our meat works supply chain has any touch points. Is it time to do what China has done, make food exporters prove that their produce are "virus free", or is it still too early to call? Do we rely much on food imports?

Kung Flu vs Ameri Cold. Can't make this stuff up.

[gooseneck]

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/v...20-8?r=US&IR=T

I've been taking Vitamin D for a few years now. Can't tell you how much more active and productive and full of energy its made me.

Might be a good idea for you guys to pick up a bottle and start taking it? Its practically everywhere and no need for a script.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

Might be a good idea for you guys to pick up a bottle and start taking it? Its practically everywhere and no need for a script.

True, I use the cheap method, sunlight.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Similar to NZ suspicion(s):
Novel coronavirus detected on imported frozen chicken wings from Brazil

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1197607.shtml

Change topic:
First dog to test positive for COVID-19 in North Carolina dies

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dog-test-p...ry?id=72322728

Poor doggy. In the very early days they detected CV in pet cats and dogs in HK. They were linked to owners who had severe cases of CV. I asked my vet about the risks. He said animals carry corona viruses all the time (not sure if it is the same strains), but there is no evidence that it can jump from dogs or cats to humans. In some countries people have been euthanising their pets due to fear of them passing on CV. Grrrrr. Becareful who you tell. When I told my dad this he started spraying the dog with Glen 20...WTF!

Originally Posted by HIPO

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/...eath_Guide.pdf

Gotta like the "Assumed " covid death part... wonder how many have been marked down like that.............

I wonder how this differs from other forms of disease. If CV is the cause of early death then yeh it makes sense to include the numbers.

In the UK they took an even more extreme (flawed) approach. If you tested positive for CV, you go into a database. They compare the database daily with another database that records people who have passed away. If you appear on both database within a 3 week period, then you are considered to have died from CV. This means, if you tested positive for CV today, then got hit by a bus in 3 weeks time, you still counted as a CV death. They only recently recognised the flaw, and have started a recount. Not sure what sort of difference in numbers it made.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

True, I use the cheap method, sunlight.

Lots of people are Vit D deficient, but there's some dispute over what the right level should be. Normally 15min of sunlight with your shirt off is enough.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

True, I use the cheap method, sunlight.

And funnily enough, never really an issue in previous generations...

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

LOL Americold conspiracy now appearing. So NZ suspect their 2nd wave could be linked to the Americold storage site in Wellington. Our Americold storage facility in Laverton has had a couple of cases. Apparently no link between the two. Would be interesting to know if our meat works supply chain has any touch points. Is it time to do what China has done, make food exporters prove that their produce are "virus free", or is it still too early to call? Do we rely much on food imports?

Kung Flu vs Ameri Cold. Can't make this stuff up.

The director of health in NZ is saying that it is very unlikely to be the cause of the out break here , so far the gene code testing is saying all the cases are from the first family they picked up but they're unable to find where its originated from?

[ute83]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/v...20-8?r=US&IR=T

I've been taking Vitamin D for a few years now. Can't tell you how much more active and productive and full of energy its made me.

Might be a good idea for you guys to pick up a bottle and start taking it? Its practically everywhere and no need for a script.

Careful, you might be fitted for a tin foil hat if you keep that up.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by leesa

But that's not true either

https://www.cardiovascularbusiness.c...amage-recovery
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/e...228-5/fulltext

The thing is that these percentages are not real as we do not know how many people have had it.


Sweden appears to be near herd immunity with 85,000 cases in 10,000,000 people, but WHO says herd immunity would likely be %60-%80 infected.
Extrapolating those numbers, for every reported case there would be 70 - 90 unreported cases.
If this can then be projected to Germany (very small sample size BTW) then -

This is almost 2 orders of magnitude error in those percentages in the first link above, ie when it says %78 it would be in reality 0.9% - 1.1%


Please feel free to re-examine the numbers.


Even if the heard immunity is off, and is really under 50%, then it means the virus is not very virile.


Again, this is why I said Sweden was interesting

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by PooDog

The director of health in NZ is saying that it is very unlikely to be the cause of the out break here , so far the gene code testing is saying all the cases are from the first family they picked up but they're unable to find where its originated from?

I thought one of the original 4 worked at the warehouse, and I thought I read one of them had contact with up to 300 people, which triggered the panic, and hence straight back into lock down. Otherwise what triggered the testing at the site? Ack my brain hurts thinking about the possibilities.

[five 7]

Just another comedy of errors with NZ govt handling of this, can't work out were outbreak comes from yet we find out last night, just under two thirds of isolation staff have never been tested.
https ://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/nearly-two-thirds-of-nz-s-covid-19-border-isolation-staff-had-never-been-tested-a-week-ago.htmltested
Would have thought it was a given that they (iso staff) had weekly tests at least. T3 the Americold warehouse is in Auckland, i think that was a bit of straw clutching /smoke screen, thinking it was coming in on frozen products. My son had very brief contact with front of house of another company with a Covid case, we have had one phone call from that company which was very vague, test maybe if you feel sick no contact yet from Govtco. NZ Govt can't find Covid leak yet boarders are still open, there were reports yesterday that more plane loads of non english speaking people showing up no masks and no distancing, showing up at iso hotels, talk about shooting yourself in the foot multiple times. Our boarders need to be locked off to all incoming till they figure out what went wrong not adding to the problem.

[T3rminator]

So the quarantine outbreak may not have started with the security firm at all....its looking like it was a hotel employed night duty manager, who then passed it on to the security guards. hmmmm.

Now we need to see how the duty manager infected the security guards. If it is shown that the security guards are not to blame, this is going to get very embarrassing, if not already.

Patient zero for Victoria's second wave was not a security guard
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...13-p55li3.html

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

The thing is that these percentages are not real as we do not know how many people have had it.


Sweden appears to be near herd immunity with 85,000 cases in 10,000,000 people, but WHO says herd immunity would likely be %60-%80 infected.
Extrapolating those numbers, for every reported case there would be 70 - 90 unreported cases.
If this can then be projected to Germany (very small sample size BTW) then -

This is almost 2 orders of magnitude error in those percentages in the first link above, ie when it says %78 it would be in reality 0.9% - 1.1%


Please feel free to re-examine the numbers.


Even if the heard immunity is off, and is really under 50%, then it means the virus is not very virile.


Again, this is why I said Sweden was interesting

Not sure what you are getting at EgoFG?

The 'Sweden response'; has not achieved herd immunity, has not change the economic position of Sweden compared to its neighbours, but has killed way more people.

What is interesting about that?

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-chi081020.php

'Sweden's policy of allowing the controlled spread of Covid-19 viral infection among the population has so far failed to deliver the country's previously stated goal of herd immunity.'


Suggesting the 'Sweden response' could be applied in other countries fundamentally misinterprets what is at the core of the strategy.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/ful...41076820945282

'itself a very ‘Swedish’ strategy, integrating the sociocultural concept of ‘folkvett’; the common sense of the people as a collective'.

[rods falcon]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

So the quarantine outbreak may not have started with the security firm at all....its looking like it was a hotel employed night duty manager, who then passed it on to the security guards. hmmmm.

Now we need to see how the duty manager infected the security guards. If it is shown that the security guards are not to blame, this is going to get very embarrassing, if not already.

Patient zero for Victoria's second wave was not a security guard
https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...13-p55li3.html

Sounds very much like a scape goat to me. How come this information didn't come out when the security guards were first discussed? And on the same day that the health minister is relieved of her responsibility in regards to the quarantine program.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by rods falcon

Sounds very much like a scape goat to me. How come this information didn't come out when the security guards were first discussed? And on the same day that the health minister is relieved of her responsibility in regards to the quarantine program.

I dunno, so we need to wait for the investigation to complete. Why did the information not come out initially? I think this is partly due to "you believe what you expect". Large sections of MSMs were looking for anything and everything they could use to stitch up the current gov. Did anyone ask? Did anyone speak to the security guards? The info allegedly came from emails, so it wouldn't have been made public anyhow.
I have a sneaky feeling the gov knew about this, hence they quickly set up an independent inquiry, rather than going tit for tat. Without an inquiry these emails may not have been accessible. I'm only guessing.

A bit surprised to hear of Jenny's demotion, although I think she has been the weakest link. Starting from when she said "we handled it perfectly" on the meat works outbreak. But who am I to judge.

[prydey]

i don't watch news myself, but on another forum some members were discussing how much editing happens on the nightly news on most tv networks.

These people have been watching the full media conferences each day by Premier Dan and have been impressed with his handling of the fishing journo's, then watch the ch7 news version of it and realised its heavily edited and paints a very different picture of the premier.

Not sure if it was a one off, or a regular thing, but sounds typical to me. They don't care who they burn to try to create 'drama'.

Cam Smith (NRL) got burned in the same way by ch9, with their selective editing of video.

[George V]

If there is no controversy then it is not news. Qld and WA got a beating about their border closing for a while but now it all gone quiet.

If anyone think politics is not in play, specially in case of Vic?

I hope politicians can start looking at what more can be done now rather than point scoring..

Regards,
George V

[russellw]

231 new cases for Australia and 9 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.615% but active cases drop to 8,996. NSW recorded 12 cases and WA 2 with the balance in Victoria.

10 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.385% and active cases rise to 36.

No update from the UK overnight.

Just under 54.5k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,386 deaths sees CMR down to 3.155% and active cases at 44.4% with the raw numbers dropping slightly. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global new cases pass 21M, the last 1M taking only 3 days;
The USA completes 68M and NZ 500k tests;
Asia recorded a record high for new cases with 94,122;

Tunisia (67), Syria (105), Albania (154), Costa Rica (1,072), Ethiopia (1,086), Romania (1,454), Ukraine (1,592) and Iraq (3,841) all recorded new daily highs, those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[russellw]

Two charts for today looking at the growth rate of new cases and deaths globally.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Sweden appears to be near herd immunity with 85,000 cases in 10,000,000 people, but WHO says herd immunity would likely be %60-%80 infected.
Extrapolating those numbers, for every reported case there would be 70 - 90 unreported cases.
If this can then be projected to Germany (very small sample size BTW) then -

Please feel free to re-examine the numbers.

Happy to re-examine them. By their own admission, Sweden has failed to achieve anything close to herd immunity, in part because those with mild cases or who are asymptomatic appear to either not develop antibodies or only very low levels which does not appear (as we discussed a couple of days ago) to provide actual protection against infection in the mid term at least.

Even those with more severe cases who do develop antibodies do not necessarily have actual immunity from the limited research to date and given that the whole premise of the herd immunity approach is predicated on the assumption that infection = immunity from future infection then if that is not the case, the theory fails.

What we do know about Sweden compared with the similarly sized Switzerland is that while their CMR and test percentages are similar; Sweden has had more than twice the number of cases per 100k of population (811 v 402) and two and a half times the number of deaths per 100k (57 v 22) that Switzerland has.

Likewise, Denmark, Norway and Finland are even lower at 241 , 54 and 37 cases per 100k respectively and their death rates are 10, 5 and 6 per 100k.

Nothing I've seen thus far is going to convince me that the Swedish experimentara has been anything other than a dismal fel.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by russellw

Happy to re-examine them. By their own admission, Sweden has failed to achieve anything close to herd immunity, in part because those with mild cases or who are asymptomatic appear to either not develop antibodies or only very low levels which does not appear (as we discussed a couple of days ago) to provide actual protection against infection in the mid term at least.

Even those with more severe cases who do develop antibodies do not necessarily have actual immunity from the limited research to date and given that the whole premise of the herd immunity approach is predicated on the assumption that infection = immunity from future infection then if that is not the case, the theory fails.

What we do know about Sweden compared with the similarly sized Switzerland is that while their CMR and test percentages are similar; Sweden has had more than twice the number of cases per 100k of population (811 v 402) and two and a half times the number of deaths per 100k (57 v 22) that Switzerland has.

Likewise, Denmark, Norway and Finland are even lower at 241 , 54 and 37 cases per 100k respectively and their death rates are 10, 5 and 6 per 100k.

Nothing I've seen thus far is going to convince me that the Swedish experimentara has been anything other than a dismal fel.

And yet it continues to get referenced

[gooseneck]

Originally Posted by prydey

Not sure if it was a one off, or a regular thing, but sounds typical to me. They don't care who they burn to try to create 'drama'.

I agree I dislike it as much as you do and have also noticed it. That selective editing has been happening in every single news article ever written for the last 20 years or so and in the 00s I used to watch a lot of satellite wildfeeds and it was night and day what the news outlets were doing to the truth. Ever since 2003 or at some point around then news credibility has gone through the floor. In america at least it was going on like that for decades before.

But sometimes you also need to take the side of the news outlets because they can also sometimes tell a truer story than whomever they are interviewing. For example you wouldn't believe Stalin soley on his word. So you do have to choose a news outlet that is easy to filter out the bias on and compensate for that bias in your head.

Every single news outlet worldwide has its own countries political bias and whomever owns the network has their own bias too. Whatever the political opinions of the owners of the network are that is reflected in the news that they project.

Trying to get the truth out of any news outlet about COVID-19 is quite easy, simple statistics especially if its a medical issue aren't typically manipulated however doing the same to the political side of things is very difficult.

I hope that helps you better in finding the real answers.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by russellw

Happy to re-examine them. By their own admission, Sweden has failed to achieve anything close to herd immunity, in part because those with mild cases or who are asymptomatic appear to either not develop antibodies or only very low levels which does not appear (as we discussed a couple of days ago) to provide actual protection against infection in the mid term at least.

Even those with more severe cases who do develop antibodies do not necessarily have actual immunity from the limited research to date and given that the whole premise of the herd immunity approach is predicated on the assumption that infection = immunity from future infection then if that is not the case, the theory fails.

What we do know about Sweden compared with the similarly sized Switzerland is that while their CMR and test percentages are similar; Sweden has had more than twice the number of cases per 100k of population (811 v 402) and two and a half times the number of deaths per 100k (57 v 22) that Switzerland has.

Likewise, Denmark, Norway and Finland are even lower at 241 , 54 and 37 cases per 100k respectively and their death rates are 10, 5 and 6 per 100k.

Nothing I've seen thus far is going to convince me that the Swedish experimentara has been anything other than a dismal fel.

Originally Posted by prydey

And yet it continues to get referenced

It's clear the 'Sweden response' has not worked as their authorities had hoped, at least not yet.

I believe people like the idea of the 'Sweden response' because of the idea of no strict lock down.

It is well documented the Swedes trust their government and public officials more than most other countries in the world. So they will do what is asked of them during a crisis such as Covid 19. No need to threaten sanctions to gain compliance.

Countries like USA and Britain have historically low trust in their governments and officials. So the 'Sweden response' could not work in those countries. The 'Sweden response' requires Swedes!

[gooseneck]

Originally Posted by ute83

Careful, you might be fitted for a tin foil hat if you keep that up.

I'm just looking to help people. Genuinely helpful and nice person (when not abused or intimidated).

I can't see how a plug for Vitamin D would in any way make me any money and I'm not entirely sure if people out there are getting enough, I mean unless you work outdoors with a shirt off I don't think we get enough, quite a few people spend most of the time watching tv or in front of a computer or inside a shed.

You can act like a tool and pretend that the only Vitamin D you need is free and comes from the sun or you can face the facts that most people don't work outdoors with their shirt off and want to post on a forum about how manly they are to other men. Or you can just grow up and pop a pill.

It could very well be that a deficiency in Vitamin D could be the thing behind most peoples depression anxiety and anger toward others and I was hoping to help people with that. and now it looks like from that article that I posted that there might be a link between a higher mortality and Vitamin D deficiency. I honestly don't see how what I'm doing is in anyway evil. I personally have had great results.

I mean sure if I start acting like a supplement plugger then please feel free to whack me one, until then hold your horses.

and thanks for the warning! Have a good night.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by five 7

Just another comedy of errors with NZ govt handling of this, can't work out were outbreak comes from yet we find out last night, just under two thirds of isolation staff have never been tested.
https ://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/nearly-two-thirds-of-nz-s-covid-19-border-isolation-staff-had-never-been-tested-a-week-ago.htmltested
Would have thought it was a given that they (iso staff) had weekly tests at least. T3 the Americold warehouse is in Auckland, i think that was a bit of straw clutching /smoke screen, thinking it was coming in on frozen products. My son had very brief contact with front of house of another company with a Covid case, we have had one phone call from that company which was very vague, test maybe if you feel sick no contact yet from Govtco. NZ Govt can't find Covid leak yet boarders are still open, there were reports yesterday that more plane loads of non english speaking people showing up no masks and no distancing, showing up at iso hotels, talk about shooting yourself in the foot multiple times. Our boarders need to be locked off to all incoming till they figure out what went wrong not adding to the problem.

you just sit and watch these highly paid professionals and pollies from all countries make basic failures in procedures that the average worker understands ...all similar mistakes yet they cant learn from them probably because they all think theyre better than that country

with the election looming over here you get the shock jocks on talk back winding everyone up with all the political conspiracies , and stirring the fear up with the public , you get people ringing up with anxiety issues , women near in tears thinking if the kids get covid the government will split families up and put the kids in isolation , quite sad that theres people out there that think theyre in a third world country and even worse that so called broadcasters dont put there mind at ease

Fills in another boring day driving trucks yesterday they were winding everyone up that we'll be going into level 4 lockdown and all the businesses will fold , today its the government conspiracy to not lock the place down so they can get re-elected .....total flip flop