VE Launch - LIVE STREAM - Sunday 16th July @ 10.30am

[Venomous]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Cant get over that there are now 20 pages of this topic in a FORD forum, and that there are so many Holden members keeping the discussion going.

Time will tell before I make my mind up, when I see them on the road, road tests etc. In the meantime, I'm not making any judgement. But then why do I need to?

Who said we're holden members, i doubt hardly any of the people in the conversation are 'holden members'. Some are just unbiased enough to actually like the new commodore, and see it for what it is.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by XR8 Guy

Who said we're holden members, i doubt hardly any of the people in the conversation are 'holden members'. Some are just unbiased enough to actually like the new commodore, and see it for what it is.

I'm only judging by the sheer number of different profile pictures and user titles which suggest that they are Holden buffs.

[Abacus]

Berlina buyers would have to feel bummed out about the 4 speed.

[ltd]

Well, firstly well done Holden on copying as much as possible, then using poetic licence to louse up the rest. The all new magnafalcamry is indeed a triumph, a triumph of what they call in Italian "Plagiaristo".
Before the usual suspects jump on the bandwagon lets establish a few facts.

The doors are similar to the outgoing camry,
The bonnet lines are BA
The headlights are BA
The rear is 380
The caprice interior is close to BA fairlane.

I think the fairlane actually may meet a resurgance in popularity thanks to the bland interior holden is offering. Yes they got rid of "Swamp Thang Green", but look at the rest. Where is the faux wood or any different materials to convey a sentiment of opulence as can be expected in a $75K plus car?
Ford where flamed for the "cheapish" interior after the AU, Holden should probably get their just deserts too.
The SS interior is in a word ghey, and red interiors have been proven to anger the blood more than soothing blue or taupe.

Flame on as much as you want, but I think the 1.23 billion spent on this by holden was in airfares for holden employees going to and from Korea to arrange manufacture. Big disappointment Holden.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by JEM

ok, i've looked at many pics and read all the threads relating to the VE. I've spent a bit of time absorbing the whole thing and this is my view on it...

From a visual point of view i am very disappointed that Holden didn't push the design envelope and come up with something more interesting, unique and innovative. Having claimed that they had a clean sheet to work with, this was their maiden opportunity to do so. Ford tried this with the AU and obviously got it wrong, but alot would have been learned from this and i'm sure manufacturer's couldn't stuff it up like that anymore.

I'm disappointed that after 1 billion dollars, Holden were only able to come up with a blend of Falcon in the front (great compliment to Ford), 380/Audi in the rear and Camry in the side. The flared guard design hasn't been excecuted that well imo either. The LWB models are a mash of themes also, Lexus in the front and very American in the rear. I don't like it. What i do like however is the design detail within the headlight/tail light assemblies. Something Ford could do with to modernise their look.

So in summary regarding styling, on-par with what's here already and not what it should have been.

The greatest improvement from what we've seen so far are the interiors, and i think they have done a reasonable job. Don't like the SS interior though (except the instrument cluster, they look quite cool) especially the grey tones. I much prefer the design theme in the Calais. The LWB instrument cluster is nice, but i don't think the HVAC/audio stack is as nice as the Calais design.

The chassis/suspension work, although said to be a huge improvement by Paul Gover, (yeah i'll wait for a drive myself thanks) is yet to be proven and is not by anymeans gauranteed to outdo the BF.

Mechanically, i can't believe they've they still have the 4spder.. that's terrible, and the base v6 with only 180kw and 330nm will more than likely struggle to make the VE feel lively.

IMO, Ford will not find it difficult to match the VE, they may need to tweak a thing or two here and there and adjust equipment levels, but boy, they are going to have a huge advantage now to trump commodore well at truly with Orion.

Not one to quote myself... but... Upon further viewing of the more realistic photographs (not the fancy, mood lit studio shots) doing the rounds, i have realised that the interior of the SS/SS-V are not as nice as i first thought. The grey plastic and instrument cluster look cheap. This is far more evident when looking at pictures taken with normal camera's etc.

There are some design elements that i quite like.. but seriously, for me, I only need one hand to count them on. There are far more area's of concern, than area's that i'd be very happy with.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by HSE2

Must resist commenting before driving said car
Must resist commenting before driving said car
Must resist commenting before driving said car
Must resist commenting before driving said car
Must resist commenting before driving said car
Must resist commenting before driving said car
Must resist commenting before driving said car

Ian, driving impressions put aside, what are your thought's on the design?

I know you've been quite keen on this release, i look forward to your opinion.

[XplosiveR6]

I cant believe they made an almost exact copy off the falcon lights and bonnet! Seriously just wait till the V8 Supercars, you wont be able to tell the difference between the falcon and commodore. Those lights are so simular i wouldnt be surprised if some kind of legal proceeding might even come of this.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

I cant believe they made an almost exact copy off the falcon lights and bonnet! Seriously just wait till the V8 Supercars, you wont be able to tell the difference between the falcon and commodore. Those lights are so simular i wouldnt be surprised if some kind of legal proceeding might even come of this.

Something Holden would cop crap for copying...will tell the falcons appart from the VE's....

BONNET BULGE! :sm_headba :

[BA GT-HO]

I would just like to raise a point about the flared guards.

Holden have stuffed up big time here. Look how stupid and akward the Omega (worst name ever by the way) looks with its small rims trying to fill the huge flared guards. They should have done a BMW and left the flared guards for SS and HSV cars only.


318i


M3

See what I mean?

The 318i still gets the flared guards but not as pumped as the M3, hence it doesn't look as ridiculous as the VE!

_

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I know you're a Holden fan boy but are you for real. Look at the bottom of the rear doors on the VE and then on the Camry. Nearly identical. Seems like every piece on the VE is a direct copy off other cars. BA headlights, M3 guards, 380 rear end and steering wheel, Astra grille, Camry doors, Vectra side profile, Aston Martin front guard vents. Is anything they do original. From a clean sheet of paper design its a pretty god damn poor effort to have nothing original.

You are really stretching the boundary's of fanboyness yourself there.

One part on the rear door that covers? 3x3cm?.

BA headlights? Still look like the lights that came off the SV6 on the Berlina. And i also wasn't aware that any BA-BF had projector or Xenon lights ever.

M3 guards are very small next to these.

380 rear:P Again very picky.

Aston Martin Front guard vents, How many out there have front guard vents now a days? Again very very picky.

380 Steering wheel:P Have you seen one?.

Astra Grill, Again look at the Astra.

Camry doors :P Camry and VE share the same Door handles:P Can you fit a VE door on a Camry?

Vectra side profile The vectra doesn't even have a head down bum up look.

You are just being super pedantic.

Originally Posted by Ruger

*cough*

Them lights are not even the same, Ones projectors:P Take a closer look at the big pics and you will see.
And that bottom part of the BA look at the same bottom section on a VY take a close look at a Berlina Calais. here take a close look.


Nit picking over little things wont help anything.

Originally Posted by ltd

Well, firstly well done Holden on copying as much as possible, then using poetic licence to louse up the rest. The all new magnafalcamry is indeed a triumph, a triumph of what they call in Italian "Plagiaristo".
Before the usual suspects jump on the bandwagon lets establish a few facts.

The doors are similar to the outgoing camry,
The bonnet lines are BA
The headlights are BA
The rear is 380
The caprice interior is close to BA fairlane..

Similar in the door handles.
Bonnet lines i see a BA almost everyday, My brothers. Your way off with that one.
BA Headlights Since when did they use projectors?
The rear isn't a 380.
The fairlaine is a Falcon interior.
You should also look at the picture posted above see the bonnet.

[Full Spectrum]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

I would just like to raise a point about the flared guards.

Holden have stuffed up big time here. Look how stupid and akward the Omega (worst name ever by the way) looks with its small rims trying to fill the huge flared guards. They should have done a BMW and left the flared guards for SS and HSV cars only.


318i


M3

See what I mean?

The 318i still gets the flared guards but not as pumped as the M3, hence it doesn't look as ridiculous as the VE!

_

Thought i would offer you some better pictures
One thing with the guards they make the front as you will see, It's part of the VE and they will stay for all models. It's not like a Bonnet bulge that comes in different models.

[BA GT-HO]

Ermmmm

Showing me pictures of the SS is NOT the point.

No matter what you say I still think you need no smaller than 18 inch rims to make those flared guards work.

They just look plain stupid on the Omega/Berlina.

:

[Full Spectrum]

Well thats your opinion and I'm not going to tell you to have a different one.
What i had one i would love the fact that it has them as i would have less to do to make it look hot. Wheels and lower it thats it have it looking perfect and mean without the ad-ons to do it up. Might not even need a body kit.

[Scruba]

Haven't seen this posted if it is a repost my apologies.

Website link for all interested:

New Commodore

[blackahcdx]

to make thisngs a bit easier, here are pics of all models.

I must admit that some styling themes look similar to other cars. Nothing wrong with that, its not as though designers of every car don't borrow bits off other cars. I'm still waiting to see it in the flesh.

BTW, i'm amazed at how many different dash board design's there are!!

VE Commodre Omega




VE Berlina




VE Calais

[blackahcdx]

VE Calias V




VE Commodore SV6




VE Commodore SS




VE Commodore SS V

[Aussie Falcon]

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet but the VE will come with room for a full-size spare but if you want one, you will have to pay for it. There is enough room for a full-size in the boot well but Holden will only offer a temporary space saver tyre as standard. A full-size tyre will be an optional extra. I think it must be a weight saving measure.

[blackahcdx]

is it going to be an Actual space saver spare or will it be like the VZ range that has a Fullsize 15 inch wheel (which would make the VE have a 16 inch cazuse thats the smallest tyre size)??

[XplosiveR6]

those interior shots look very opal vectra/astra. its funny how they now call it an omega, where that is what the derived car is called, the opal omega.

[TheSneakiness]

Just one small thing before I ask what I was going to.

It doesn't matter about the projecter lights in this new Commo, fact of the matter is that they look like BA/BF headlights design-wise. Who gives a **** if it's projecter or not?

Now, to what I originally was gonna ask.

What's the difference between the Calais and the Calais V? You can also chuck the SS and SS-V in as well.

[seano14]

[blackahcdx]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

those interior shots look very opal vectra/astra. its funny how they now call it an omega, where that is what the derived car is called, the opal omega.

Actually this Commodore shares nothing with the Opel Omega. Although i agree thats its strange to choose the Omega name.


The Calais V will be the "Sport Luxury" model so bigger wheels, more features a bit sportier

The SS is replacing the old SV8 and the new SS V will sit somewhere near where the old SS had grown to

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

You are really stretching the boundary's of fanboyness yourself there.

One part on the rear door that covers? 3x3cm?.

BA headlights? Still look like the lights that came off the SV6 on the Berlina. And i also wasn't aware that any BA-BF had projector or Xenon lights ever.

M3 guards are very small next to these.

380 rear:P Again very picky.

Aston Martin Front guard vents, How many out there have front guard vents now a days? Again very very picky.

380 Steering wheel:P Have you seen one?.

Astra Grill, Again look at the Astra.

Camry doors :P Camry and VE share the same Door handles:P Can you fit a VE door on a Camry?

Vectra side profile The vectra doesn't even have a head down bum up look.

You are just being super pedantic.

Them lights are not even the same, Ones projectors:P Take a closer look at the big pics and you will see.
And that bottom part of the BA look at the same bottom section on a VY take a close look at a Berlina Calais. here take a close look.


Nit picking over little things wont help anything.

Similar in the door handles.
Bonnet lines i see a BA almost everyday, My brothers. Your way off with that one.
BA Headlights Since when did they use projectors?
The rear isn't a 380.
The fairlaine is a Falcon interior.
You should also look at the picture posted above see the bonnet.

To second that motion, We're not talking light bulbs

The light placement and shape of the unit itself...

It makes perfect sense for GMH to go off the styling cues of the Astra...it just doesnt look good.

In addition to that, Holden designers even mentioned they used a several european car makes as benchmarks...one of those was BMW. Hense the side profile/head down *** up look it has now.

[ltd]

Well when you can finally afford one and the guy at the lights says the front looks like a falcon, you can proudly say no, the headlights are projector.

I guess owning a vp makes you the most objective judge here; especially on a ford forum. Let me be the first to say we got it wrong, you were right all along. Oh, I better change the tone of that last comment with a smiley too huh?

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by ltd

Well when you can finally afford one and the guy at the lights says the front looks like a falcon, you can proudly say no, the headlights are projector.

I guess owning a vp makes you the most objective judge here; especially on a ford forum. Let me be the first to say we got it wrong, you were right all along. Oh, I better change the tone of that last comment with a smiley too huh?[/QU

Bingo! :

Slick I think the only people who can really have an untainted opinion are the people out there that arent Holden or Ford Fans...or the mature of both..Our opinions seem to shape up more with the unbiassed (like a lot of my mates who like other brands then Holden or Ford... who all say it has a BA style front etc etc) and i pride myself on trying to be objective about my discussions on here as many other do Slick..I've even tried to inject positive comments into discussions with my friends regarding it...and they disagree with me...these people (like i said) are the unbiased ones.

[EA2BA]

Originally Posted by SlickHolden

Woo You know so much ahead of time before anyone on the planet does even holden and ford :evil3: .
Can i have the lotto number for Saturday please :

I do not have the Lotto numbers, but I do know what some parts of the Orion are destined to look like (I have to leave it at that).
I can say that even the current BF shifter looks 100% better then the VE shifter before you go any further.

The power figures etc I qouted came from the Holden site (maybe they have since pulled them down) and other specs printed on the internet, while they may not be 100% real world tested by the Journalists yet and confirmed, they do exist, and I stand by them.

The VE which should have had styling and inspiring looks, just plain doesnt, in fact its lucky to have matched the BF let alone over taken it, no split fold rear seat is just stupid (and I pray Ford never drop it).

Yes I like Fords and always have, I can even give praise to Holden, the V8 looks like a monster and something to envy.

I am not being biased, merely having an opion, and for the record I stood up and said the lights were not a copy of the BA/BF.

P.S. I plan to be just as critical of the Orion.

[Dazza TT]

From one of my Die Hard Holden Supporting Mates- "I love Holden and love the Commodore and despise FORD with a passion, but I must confess, I do NOT like this new model. At first glance it looks ok but the more I look at it the more I dislike it." :

[Bucket]

In addtion to what i said before, we wanted to see something really groundbreaking from Holden...that would raise the bar for Orion to meet...What Australia got wasnt that. Just annother Holden that will be marketed as "Revolutionary", not evolutionary.

BA Falcon was one of if not the First of Australian Made cars to employ the use of the Control Blade IRS, Power Adjustable Pedals, Fly By Wire Acceleration, A CAN (right acronym?) (Car Area Network) and a number of other things never seen before in An Australian Car.
We had High Expectations of the BA Falcon and for most of us, Ford met them. We have just as high expectations for the VE and so far they havent been met in a lot of peoples Eyes...It's not Fresh, it certainly isnt original and The Drive Trains have stayed virtually the same in most models by the looks of things.

[EA2BA]

Thats another good point Bucket, the drive train appears to have been allocated very little of the $1 billion investment, well from all press releases to date, it may have wider track and longer wheel base but thats about it, no song and dance has been about it, the biggest noise being is about how the interior is easy to make different between models and can be left or right hand drive .........

[Dazza TT]

It will be interesting to read what Wheels and Motor think of the VE.
Will wait to see if they are going to be honest, and tell it like they see it.