Covid 19 -

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Hopefully you're right. But is there any real point if say.. 50% of the Australian population decide to get the vaccine, and the other half don't? The 50% that don't will still cause restrictions and lockdowns to continue, as there will still be outbreaks and transmission.

When you have idiots saying things like 'if you get the vaccine then you and your friends and family are safe' and/or 'you have no chance of becoming infected by someone that refused to take a vaccine', then I guess we should expect the current situation to remain unchanged for a very prolonged time.

It should be made 100% mandatory. And the people that refuse, they should not be allowed to enter workplaces, shopping centres, etc, etc, etc. They should be isolated from the rest of the country until they do get vaccinated. The people who get vaccinated should not have to pay a price for the idiots who don't.

You are a idiot

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

COVID vaccine likely to be mandatory in Australia, Scott Morrison says after signing deal with Oxford University

PM: "I would expect it to be as mandatory as you could possibly make it,"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...atory/12572992


But not long after, he changed his mind. Probably after he realised the Hillsong Church has a lot of anti-vaxxers amongst it's members.

PM: "It's not going to be compulsory to have the vaccine,"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...ments/12575600

Make it optional. If the vaccine works then you and your friends and family are safe, right? So you have no chance of becoming infected by someone that refused to take a vaccine because you opted for the vaccine. so you're all good.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Make it optional. If the vaccine works then you and your friends and family are safe, right? So you have no chance of becoming infected by someone that refused to take a vaccine because you opted for the vaccine. so you're all good.

It doesn't quite work like that. A small percentage who get the vaccine will not develop enough antibodies to be immune. So, unless you get tested you won't know for certain that you can't catch it. Plus all the immuno compromised, like anyone getting chemo for cancer, or too young to be vaccinated, will be vulnerable.
When whooping cough outbreaks started to take the lives of babies (vaccine doesn't work until one year old) in areas where there are lots of anti-vaxers and poor herd immunity, people started to refer to anti-vaxers as "baby killers"
The whole debate gets nasty at times.
https://www.qt.com.au/news/her-daugh...-Lz9WBSm2Oa748

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Make it optional. If the vaccine works then you and your friends and family are safe, right? So you have no chance of becoming infected by someone that refused to take a vaccine because you opted for the vaccine. so you're all good.

Drink driving should be optional too. You've got airbags right? You and your family should be safe, why would you care what others are doing on the road?

[nstg8a]

I have nothing against vaccines, I get the flu shot most years however I won’t be getting any COVID vaccine until there’s decent information out there about it’s long term effects.

Never has a vaccine been so rushed as what they’re trying to do right now, and they have to cut corners in order to get it done.

I’m not gonna be a guinea pig. But I,m sure plenty will put up their hands for that role.

As for making it mandatory? Yeah good luck with that. That will be the quickest way to make people resist getting it.

[Romulus]

Hmmmm.....so stage 4 lockdowns were based on the 'hundreds of people failing to quarantine' according to Comrade Andrews. Yet the Police have only fined 42 people since April. Wow.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-...tions/12574670
Despite claims hundreds are failing to isolate during the coronavirus crisis, Victoria Police says only 42 people have been fined

By Leonie Thorne


Victoria Police Deputy Commissioner Rick Nugent said some people were in the shed or showering when checked on.

Victoria Police has issued just 42 fines to people for failing to self-isolate when directed to, saying the "majority of people" have been doing the right thing when checked on.

Key points:
Common reasons people were recorded as not being at home were incorrect address details or being outside for a valid reasons
Victoria's Deputy Police Commissioner says some people were actually in the shower or in the shed when checked on
The State Government said earlier this month that hundreds of people weren't at home when they were supposed to be self-isolating
Earlier this month, the State Government introduced new penalties targeting people who did not self-isolate when directed to, including an on-the-spot fine of $4,957.

Police were given the power to detain repeat offenders, and people were no longer allowed to leave home to exercise if they had been directed to self-isolate.

Announcing the changes, the Government cited 3,000 doorknocks conducted by the Australian Defence Force (ADF) and health officials, which found more than 800 people were not at home when they were supposed to be self-isolating.

But information released by Victoria Police today shows:

26 people were fined $1,652 before the tougher measures were introduced on August 4
16 people were fined $4,957 after the new fine was introduced
For the latest news on the COVID-19 pandemic read our coronavirus updates.
Victoria Police said there were two common reasons people were initially recorded as not being at home: they had left their home for a permitted reason, or their address details were incorrect.

Deputy Commissioner Rick Nugent also said some people were actually at home when door-knocked.

"Some of them were in the shower when we knocked on the door, some were in a shed in the back building something, so they're not all necessarily out of their home," he said.

"Our experience is that the majority of people are doing the right thing."


Details of more than 30,000 people required to self-isolate given to police
Many of the 42 people who were fined had left home to go to the shops or for a walk, police said.

People are directed to self-isolate if they have tested positive to COVID-19, or if they are a close contact of someone who has.

The Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) has given Victoria Police the details of more than 30,000 people directed to self-isolate since April.

But until this weekend, police officers tasked with enforcing COVID-19 restrictions had no way of distinguishing data about those people, from data about people who were not at home when the ADF performed doorknocks.

"[Operation] Sentinel units have an app on their phone and they're tasked via the app," Deputy Commissioner Nugent said.

"What we can do now is differentiate between those who were checked by ADF and authorised officers, versus the general data provided by DHHS."

Deputy Commissioner Nugent said since the weekend, 98 out of 444 referrals of people not self-isolating were still under investigation.

[Mr_G6ET]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Hmmmm.....so stage 4 lockdowns were based on the 'hundreds of people failing to quarantine' according to Comrade Andrews.....

Good feedback, good to hear there are less careless citizens than we thought. Nice analogy, what would you have said ?
Note 'some' but cant ignore the truth about the majority

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Mr_G6ET

Good feedback, good to hear there are less careless citizens than we thought. Nice analogy, what would you have said ?
Note 'some' but cant ignore the truth about the majority

The basis of the stage 4 lockdown was largely attributed to the 'hundreds of people failing to isolate'. This is patently false, indeed completely contradicted by the Police who've only issued 42 fines since the lockdowns began in April.

This is a typical approach from a government which operates in a vacuum of accountability and zero care about the citizenry in general.

Originally Posted by Romulus

The basis of the stage 4 lockdown was largely attributed to the 'hundreds of people failing to isolate'. This is patently false, indeed completely contradicted by the Police who've only issued 42 fines since the lockdowns began in April.

This is a typical approach from a government which operates in a vacuum of accountability and zero care about the citizenry in general.

You're not serious? They locked down because they were getting several hundred new cases a day. If people were isolating sufficiently then those numbers wouldnt have happened.

Why are you using the numbers of fines as evidence instead of the numbers of infections? You know that being threatened with fines generally curbs behaviour?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by leesa

You're not serious? They locked down because they were getting several hundred new cases a day. If people were isolating sufficiently then those numbers wouldnt have happened.

Why are you using the numbers of fines as evidence instead of the numbers of infections? You know that being threatened with fines generally curbs behaviour?

No. Re-read and re-watch Andrews press conferences. His justification was based on the number of people failing to quarantine/self isolate, likely to increase the possibility of community spread. What Andrews failed to address was the failure of the hotel quarantine debacle being the cause of the outbreak.

[MITCHAY]

I'll take one for the team. You can't prove its effectiveness if you don't have anyone put their hand up

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I'll take one for the team.

Which of Romulus’ excuses are you referring to?

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Which of Romulus’ excuses are you referring to?

It got out of order. I was talking about Covid vaccine trials, as in I wouldn't have any issue with having the jab

[gooseneck]

haha. You guys think politicians really care if you get autism? You've all been buying Volkswagens and Audis and Toyotas and you think this didn't get noticed by Satan?

I'm against the mandatory COVID-19 vaccination but for the annual flu shot. I'm not going to have some ****er like Scummo decide for me if a vaccine is safe yet.

[russellw]

You will notice some deleted posts in the last couple of pages so let them stand as a warning that anyone who wishes to continue in that particular vein is going to be removed from this thread (and the entire Pub) until they can learn to behave like decent human beings rather than arrogant tools.

I won't be repeating myself. Apologies to the couple of people whose posts got deleted because they quoted one of the posts I was getting rid of.

[marty351]

Just saw on the news, "no jab, no pay". Start treading water, ****s got deep yo!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by marty351

Just saw on the news, "no jab, no pay". Start treading water, ****s got deep yo!

Scomo has been banging on for ages about this and frankly its fine, still gives people a choice.

Ill be in line, about happy for a few 1000 to go a couple of months before

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by marty351

Just saw on the news, "no jab, no pay". Start treading water, ****s got deep yo!

Isn't it "no jab no play"? Refers to kids not allowed in playgroups, preschool etc unless vaccinated?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Isn't it "no jab no play"? Refers to kids not allowed in playgroups, preschool etc unless vaccinated?

Yes, but he seems happy to extend to those on benefits that dont vaccinate. Fine by me, good cost save.

[George V]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Isn't it "no jab no play"? Refers to kids not allowed in playgroups, preschool etc unless vaccinated?

Yes; No access to govt subsidised childcare for kids without vaccination.

Nothing is compulsory and govt was bluffing or it was for baiting media.

Regards,
George V

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by marty351

Just saw on the news, "no jab, no pay". Start treading water, ****s got deep yo!

Scomo was testing the water yesterday morning when saying there will be 25 million doses available for Australians, and only a few will be exempt from taking it, those with a medical exemption. He back peddled quick when questioned by Neil Mitchell of 3AW later in the day when asked if the vaccine would be mandatory. But the governments intent is to roll out the vaccine program the same way the no job no play and no jab no pay principle applies.

Let us see what happens when the government rolls out the 'no jab, no pay' type approach for this Covid vaccine. The principle will be the same as childcare rebate and preschool and kindly enrolment. Basically, anyone on any type of government payment (pension, unemployment benefit, family tax benefit A/B) must be vaccinated to receive their payment.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Romulus

Scomo was testing the water yesterday morning when saying there will be 25 million doses available for Australians, and only a few will be exempt from taking it, those with a medical exemption. He back peddled quick when questioned by Neil Mitchell of 3AW later in the day when asked if the vaccine would be mandatory. But the governments intent is to roll out the vaccine program the same way the no job no play and no jab no pay principle applies.

Let us see what happens when the government rolls out the 'no jab, no pay' type approach for this Covid vaccine. The principle will be the same as childcare rebate and preschool and kindly enrolment. Basically, anyone on any type of government payment (pension, unemployment benefit, family tax benefit A/B) must be vaccinated to receive their payment.

While it sounds a bit communist I am for it, had some evil thought of sterilizing some but probably too far.

I think jab/no jab will be a great conversation once we get anywhere near a vaccine. Right now its wasted energy.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Polyal

While it sounds a bit communist I am for it, had some evil thought of sterilizing some but probably too far.

I think jab/no jab will be a great conversation once we get anywhere near a vaccine. Right now its wasted energy.

I'm all for it too. People will understand the plight of the 'anti-vaxxers'. Financial coercion sorts out the men from the boys when it comes to these matters.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Romulus

People will understand the plight of the 'anti-vaxxers'. Financial coercion sorts out the men from the boys when it comes to these matters.

'Plight', as commonly used, implies that the moron are entitled to some sympathy in much the same way as we should care about the plight of starving children in Africa.

By definition, the term means "a dangerous, difficult, or otherwise unfortunate situation" but I struggle with the concept that a situation that is avoidable and of ones own making based on some feeble logic or sense of 'rights' can properly fit the definition.

I've no issue with coercion or the application of sanctions against those who refuse to do something that (by the time it is available) will offer a measure of protection for not only them but for the entire community.

[Falcon SXR8]

I think its a basic human right to not be forced to put something in your body you don't want. Im not an anti vaxer but like a lot of others question the development time of these covid vaccines and will be waiting a bit before i or my family choose to have one.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I think its a basic human right to not be forced to put something in your body you don't want. Im not an anti vaxer but like a lot of others question the development time of these covid vaccines and will be waiting a bit before i or my family choose to have one.

Welcome to the 'anti-vaxxer' world, where the government uses financial coercion to get you vaccinate. Anyone receiving any sort of government payment or subsidy better be ready to roll up their sleeve or lose your government subsidies. This includes and childcare subsidies, rebates, FTB A/B.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I think its a basic human right to not be forced to put something in your body you don't want. Im not an anti vaxer but like a lot of others question the development time of these covid vaccines and will be waiting a bit before i or my family choose to have one.

Well said.

If I had to choose, compulsorily, to vaccinate I would need to choose between a multi national, profit driven, minimum time to market company like AstraZenaca or the Russian "Sputnik" vaccine....

I reckon I would prefer to risk an early adopter experience with the Russian vaccine.

[FPV8U]

The potential vaccine is good news of hope on the horizon, recent antibody studies overseas have shown the opposite to initial thoughts of short term immunity relating to the virus and good immune response to even asymptomatic cases.

https://youtu.be/D5Z6wdu1eI0

Dr J.Campbell goes into detail.

This news combined with developing early stage treatment options and hopefully a nice warm summer could see some big positive changes.

Hopefully Australia and in particular Victoria moves towards providing some antibody screening sooner rather than later so we can start to develop a better situation picture, I’ve mentioned before that if they had the blood donations screened it would be an excellent way of encouraging donation and collection of value able data at the same time.

[Fed]

I don't do needles so they will have to put it in a pill for me.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Fed

I don't do needles so they will have to put it in a pill for me.

Wuss.