Post-2016 Falcon News and Discussion.

[outback_ute]

Any reason why the next gen Falcon and Territory couldn't share cabin architecture? All of a sudden you have better space, shorter overall package, plus a cost & tooling efficiency gain. The more formal, upright style of the car would then also suit as a Lincoln.

[JPFS1]

There still needs to be massive investment in the plant to be able to manufacture a new architecture if the hard points of the platform change.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Any reason why the next gen Falcon and Territory couldn't share cabin architecture? All of a sudden you have better space, shorter overall package, plus a cost & tooling efficiency gain. The more formal, upright style of the car would then also suit as a Lincoln.

Just like D3 Taurus and Explorer but here's the rub, your new Falcon would weigh nearly as much as a Territory.

Ford is barely scraping by with updates to existing vehicles, the case for building global platforms
requires a lot of cash to change the plant to those vehicles but, what if FoA evolves locals to use global parts?
scales of economy and profitability come at the supplier level not at the production floor.

After November, Ford production worker numbers will be down to around 1000 building 148 vehicles a day,
now contrast that with Holden's plant at Elizabeth (and Geelong engine ) building 400 cars a day...

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Pepscobra

.......... Tradition and brand loyalty are counting for less and less these days.

I do believe that the Falcon is too big these days. It needs to be trimmed back to the size of a Camry IMO.

Falcon too big? Really? I passed on an FG because i felt too squshed. Found much, much more leg/shoulder/head room in a Honda Accord! And heaps more rear passanger space also. Oh, and i mean the V6, not the Euro.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Falcon too big? Really? I passed on an FG because i felt too squshed. Found much, much more leg/shoulder/head room in a Honda Accord! And heaps more rear passanger space also. Oh, and i mean the V6, not the Euro.

you comments aren't backed up by the official measurements.
falcon v accord

front headroom 1012mm v 1051mm
front legroom 1073mm v 1079mm
front shoulder 1523mm v 1479

rear headroom 989 v 978
rear legroom 989 v 944
rear shoulder 1518 v 1432

having said that, real world appearance/perception often differs from the specifications.

[jpd80]

Edit, Pridy beat me to it...

Could be canopy effect, Mondeo has great cabin presence because of generous roof line,
maybe this is a point where a smaller mid size car can feel like a much bigger car?

[Auslandau]

....... and the fact that the biggest sellers are also the largest of all. Most SUV's & 4x4's could not be considered compact & economical.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by prydey

you comments aren't backed up by the official measurements.
falcon v accord

front headroom 1012mm v 1051mm
front legroom 1073mm v 1079mm
front shoulder 1523mm v 1479

rear headroom 989 v 978
rear legroom 989 v 944
rear shoulder 1518 v 1432

having said that, real world appearance/perception often differs from the specifications.

Sorry. But "egress" (think that is the correct term?) was easier in the Honda. I felt squashed in the FG. The windscreen seemed to encroach my space. My legs had less room to move. Measurent data does not always equate to reality at times, as an example: i cant fit into the rear of an FG as comfortably as the Accord, and it is not because of the "size" of the rear passanger space, but because of the door way opening: MY FEET HARDLY FIT IN THE BACK OF THE FALCON!! Lol.

My head only just touches the roof of an FG, but not in the Honda.

My business partner now drives a G6E( he is much shorter than me) and he comments about how much smaller it is than the Accord. I know that physically it may not be bigger, but to a "specific" proportioned person like me, it feels roomier.

Mind you, i know that all new cars take some getting used to. I drive the G6E every now and then, and i am getting used to it, constantly refining the seating position every time i drive it. So much so, that i am keen on a new falcon, the G6E seems "roomier" than the xr6. Now is that my imagination or reality? Lol

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by prydey

you comments aren't backed up by the official measurements.
falcon v accord

front headroom 1012mm v 1051mm.....

So the Accord has nearly 40 mm more headroom hey? Lol. Thanks for confirming this.

Would be nice if they give different measurements to the standard leg room/shoulder room. For me foot size and butt space would be more practicle lol!

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Falcon too big? Really? I passed on an FG because i felt too squshed. Found much, much more leg/shoulder/head room in a Honda Accord! And heaps more rear passanger space also. Oh, and i mean the V6, not the Euro.

Agreed. I sat in an FG Mk II XR6 down at the dealer the other day. It feels cramped compared to my BA. And less leg room in the back from what I could see when I turned and looked into it from the back. That and I felt way up in the air comparatively. But then again, I didn't make any adjustments to the seat or steering wheel.

One advantage is that everything falls easily to hand.


The large car is probably the last thing left to get scrutinized by 'One Ford'. And I don't think it a coincidence that Mustang is going global, and Falcon spear-headed 4cyl EcoBoost application. Mustang likely to debut the new architecture to under-pin the Falcon.

A RWD saloon will be the last thing Ford won't have globally, that all it's competitors will have. Even the Koreans (Who could have thought the Koreans could be associated with RWD saloons five years ago?)

[Nikked]

RWD Lincolns are coming.

Autoblog

TheDetroitBureau.com spoke with sources at Lincoln and Ford, who claimed the American premium brand is working on, perhaps more than one, rear-wheel-drive vehicle.

Lincoln would likely platform-share with the next-generation Ford Mustang to develop those RWD offerings in the early going. Moving forward, the report indicates that Lincoln could take the lead on other rear-drive projects in the future

Interesting.

Seems that the Mustang + RWD Sedan rumors are getting a bit more weight to them.

Thanks to Falc'man on Falconforums we have this...

S550 is not the platform name, but the project name for the next Mustang. Like Trinity was for the 2013 GT500 or Coyote for the Modular 5.0L.

The next platform is a full-size sedan platform. Ford is extensively modifying it for Mustang use.

It doesn't take too much imagination to suggest that the the only RWD platform ford has (E8), could be the basis for this to happen. The E8 is still the newest sedan platform in the inventory...

Whatever the case, a RWD lincoln would be the perfect base for a Falcon, and along with the Mustang (and possible RHD Lincolns for other markets) it would slot in perfectly for Australan manufacture...

If only the local journo's caught on to this, rather then the pathetic (and relitivesubstance lacking) Taurus dribble...

[SpoolMan]

The Mustang news has been well documented by the journos and on this Forum for many months.
I hope we get to play some sort of part in manufacturing here in Oz from what ever is coming.

[Auslandau]

As far as the Mustang goes, now that FPV are Ford owned, they can bring out any car that they seem fit without having to upset the deals made with another companies on who sell what model. It gives them that extra bit of freedom to control their market. Mustang in the garage in 4 years time sounds promising ....

That depends on what they do with the Au GT of course!

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

RWD Lincolns are coming.

Autoblog




Interesting.

Seems that the Mustang + RWD Sedan rumors are getting a bit more weight to them.

Thanks to Falc'man on Falconforums we have this...




It doesn't take too much imagination to suggest that the the only RWD platform ford has (E8), could be the basis for this to happen. The E8 is still the newest sedan platform in the inventory...

Whatever the case, a RWD lincoln would be the perfect base for a Falcon, and along with the Mustang (and possible RHD Lincolns for other markets) it would slot in perfectly for Australan manufacture...

If only the local journo's caught on to this, rather then the pathetic (and relitivesubstance lacking) Taurus dribble...

It was touch and go there for a while, but it seems Falcon's future has been secured. I know they say Lincoln will take the development lead... but I seriously doubt that. We have the prowess and the know-how. It's been our bread and butter for decades. I guess this goes hand in hand with our newly remodelled design studio here.

I am so elated. Everything I've been saying... is happening. (Well it was just common sense.)

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Buntz

It was touch and go there for a while, but it seems Falcon's future has been secured. I know they say Lincoln will take the development lead... but I seriously doubt that. We have the prowess and the know-how. It's been our bread and butter for decades. I guess this goes hand in hand with our newly remodelled design studio here.

I am so elated. Everything I've been saying... is happening. (Well it was just common sense.)

Talk about jumping the gun, based on nothing more than internet rumours. And we all know how reliable they are. Lincoln bosses specifically said only months ago that they will continue with FWD/AWD only for the forseeable future. Unless thats changed.

And as for Lincoln taking the lead I wouldn't be suprised at all. The not invented here issue still seems to linger in Detroit.

Lets hope the Global RWD platform is going ahead though, would be one of Falcons only chances to continue in its current form because there's no way FoA can ever do another one based solely on an Australian only platform.

PS. The design studio upgrade is to handle the work FoA now have being the development centre for Ford Asia Pacific ie. Chinese Focus etc.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Talk about jumping the gun, based on nothing more than internet rumours. And we all know how reliable they are. Lincoln bosses specifically said only months ago that they will continue with FWD/AWD only for the forseeable future. Unless thats changed.

And as for Lincoln taking the lead I wouldn't be suprised at all. The not invented here issue still seems to linger in Detroit.

Lets hope the Global RWD platform is going ahead though, would be one of Falcons only chances to continue in its current form because there's no way FoA can ever do another one based solely on an Australian only platform.

PS. The design studio upgrade is to handle the work FoA now have being the development centre for Ford Asia Pacific ie. Chinese Focus etc.

Sorry Boss. Next time I will try to be more negative and sceptical.

[Bossxr8]

There's a big difference between being negative and totally jumping to conclusions based on internet rumours that may be completely unfounded.

We've been through this before with global RWD before it got canned.

[rdmr]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The not invented here issue still seems to linger in Detroit.

Wrong. Fiesta, Focus and soon Transit all on sale in america. And none designed in detroit.

[Auslandau]

..... and the Ranger was invented in?

Also FoA was allowed to play with putting the EcoBoost into a large RWD sedan which will also benefit the brand down the track in America and the rest of the place. FoA has some very talented people and as you know Bossxr8, and alot of this talent is used overseas and FoA is used for as training ground in all areas.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

..... and the Ranger was invented in?

And then the Yanks disallowed it in the US to replace their old Ranger because it might steal sales from F series.

Not invented here still exists in some form.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

And then the Yanks disallowed it in the US to replace their old Ranger because it might steal sales from F series.

Not invented here still exists in some form.

The truck segment in the US is protected by a heavy tariff...over 10% IIRC for non US made trucks...

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

The truck segment in the US is protected by a heavy tariff...over 10% IIRC for non US made trucks...

And because the F series is in a larger segment class, they don't want anything that could take it away as the number in that class, even from within. Especially as some Americans say they would prefer the Ranger as they don't need such a large truck.

GM don't care about being number one, just selling vehicles. So that is why they have the Colorado there... or maybe they think they can achieve both?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There's a big difference between being negative and totally jumping to conclusions based on internet rumours that may be completely unfounded.

We've been through this before with global RWD before it got canned.

Where there is smoke there is Fire. And lots of rumours going around the net have eventually come true. And it of course makes sense. Now we just need a confirmation from Ford.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

..... and the Ranger was invented in?

Also FoA was allowed to play with putting the EcoBoost into a large RWD sedan which will also benefit the brand down the track in America and the rest of the place. FoA has some very talented people and as you know Bossxr8, and alot of this talent is used overseas and FoA is used for as training ground in all areas.

Falcon EcoBoost was IMO developed for just two purposes. One was to see how Australia would like a Falcon with an 8L/100km efficiency. The second is far more important. It was a ruse to develop RWD Ecoboost technology for Ford to use in the next gen Mustang. A Mustang that promises to use plenty of Falcon platform and subsystems. The Falcon will most likely in return get a new Mustang IRS that is both lighter (aluminium) and can handle far more grunt.

I sincerely hope this comes to fruition.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Falcon EcoBoost was IMO developed for just two purposes. One was to see how Australia would like a Falcon with an 8L/100km efficiency. The second is far more important. It was a ruse to develop RWD Ecoboost technology for Ford to use in the next gen Mustang. A Mustang that promises to use plenty of Falcon platform and subsystems. The Falcon will most likely in return get a new Mustang IRS that is both lighter (aluminium) and can handle far more grunt.

I sincerely hope this comes to fruition.

You and me both buddy. Thanks for being a positive voice in a sea of misery.

[Moby Vic]

Keep those conspiracy theories comin'!

[JPFS1]

rumors are fun... why not add to the speculation by thinking there might be some subliminal messages coming from Lincolns new marketing campaign...??

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

rumors are fun... why not add to the speculation by thinking there might be some subliminal messages coming from Lincolns new marketing campaign...??

Falcon and Mustang... hells to the yeah.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by phillyc

The second is far more important. It was a ruse to develop RWD Ecoboost technology for Ford to use in the next gen Mustang.

The UK are getting a Mustang with the Ecoboost and V6 they like us are right hand drive, all good as long as they don't forget the V8 variant here in Oz.

[flappist]

I can think of a couple of people who will not be happy about this at all.

I wonder how the resale of a 2012 RHD converted mustang will hold up....

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by flappist

I can think of a couple of people who will not be happy about this at all.

I wonder how the resale of a 2012 RHD converted mustang will hold up....

That is really going to hurt them..BUT...have you seen the RRP of a 2012 Boss 302 LS in Oz...$130k....I believe they are ~$50k in the US. I know they have ADR costs etc but $80k worth...hmm