Ford warns of deep Europe cuts

[MAGPIE]

Can someone explain something please...

This thread talks about oversupply in Europe, so focusing specifically on Ford, why is there always talk on here how Ford AU cant obtain sufficient supply of European models hence they don't sell and feature well in the vfacts tables

I don't get it.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by bundy

Yup the best thing EU can do is wind up the Euro and cut loose countries like Italy, Greece etc that are dragging it down. The One Currency dream is over, its just making the rest of the world suffer for the corrupt / greedy few.
I bet England are just proud as punch thumbing their nose at it from the begining.

Some countries (EU states) cutting loose does make sense but today the Germans and French signal their desire for the Euro to remain as is by all member states, but perhaps domestic circumstance in Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal we'll see it forced, but even when that happens, the whole global fiat currency system is severely faulty, and I expect an unravelling to continue a number of years yet, with perhaps, god forbid, a US unravelling circa 2014-16, though some experts predict 2013.

Patience I guess, the rides only warming up.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Can someone explain something please...

This thread talks about oversupply in Europe, so focusing specifically on Ford, why is there always talk on here how Ford AU cant obtain sufficient supply of European models hence they don't sell and feature well in the vfacts tables

I don't get it.

I think it may come down to diesel engine supply. The diesel engine plants can't keep up, hence they can't build enough diesel powered vehicles for our market.

I don't think petrol engine supplies are a problem.

[mik]

Ford can see the global financial thing is far from over and they are acting accordingly in europe, and also it`s hard to see them wanting to build cars in this country for any length of time with the cost of doing business, established or not i would expect the same sentiment for toyota and gm(holden)......glass half full? , not for manufacturing.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I think it may come down to diesel engine supply. The diesel engine plants can't keep up, hence they can't build enough diesel powered vehicles for our market.

I don't think petrol engine supplies are a problem.

FoA orders uses different electrical wiring to comply with ADRs, so cars for Australia are built in runs
after FoE builds their orders first, there's normally around a four month wait..

Ecoboost Zetec at $34,990 drive away says that FoA has plenty of cars but few buyers,
you never see the TCDIs discounted because the very few obtained are usually sold out..

FoE's 2.0 diesel goes into
Focus, C-Max, Transit Connect, Kuga, Mondeo, S-max, Galaxy...so you see it's in high demand.

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by jpd80

FoA orders uses different electrical wiring to comply with ADRs, so cars for Australia are built in runs
after FoE builds their orders first, there's normally around a four month wait..

That really has to give car makers the Shizzer's.

Why don't the Car makers make a stand and demand govenments to standardise the design rules!

[Elements]

Originally Posted by jpd80

FoA orders uses different electrical wiring to comply with ADRs, so cars for Australia are built in runs
after FoE builds their orders first, there's normally around a four month wait..

Do you know which ADRs are causing this, John? A lot of ADRs have an UN-ECE equivalency (to save on re-tooling existing products), so this has my ears pricked up.

Especially since I've been working a fair bit with ADRs lately..! ;)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Elements

Do you know which ADRs are causing this, John? A lot of ADRs have an UN-ECE equivalency (to save on re-tooling existing products), so this has my ears pricked up.

Especially since I've been working a fair bit with ADRs lately..! ;)

Not sure which ones exactly but i do know that New Zealand takes the UK Spec RHD Mondeo without the lengthy waiting time.
Perhaps the CD4 update is where everyone's wiring requirements are harmonized and made available.

[falconnut]

Sad times

[Buntz]

Yep. Bleak times in Europe at the moment. Especially if you build cars. PSA Peugeot Citroen are really hurting. And before all this were building momentum for exciting products. 8000 jobs is just mass amounts of skilled labour going home with no jobs.

GM could be considered the first as Opel is just a sink hole at the moment. Funnily enough, they just entered into a partnership with ^PSAPC^ to build engines together or something. Mazda CEO got it right... it's partner or die. And it doesn't look like anyone wants to partner with Mazda.

Ford now comes out saying they have to be realistic, and are going to want to minimise their losses, while they pray and hope that the U.S. car buying boom continues. I read (on Autoblog, check out the press release)that $404 million of $465 million was from Europe alone. So that is $61 million dollars loss everywhere else bar US and Europe. Clearly Ford are going to have to leverage APA in future where there is currently growth. So Australia could end up being a sole provider for one nameplate at least.

I wonder who will be next in Europe to put their hand up and say they are in trouble.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Yep. Bleak times in Europe at the moment.

Sitting back here in Europe enjoying a lifestyle far superior to Australia's, that comment is very funny. Reminds me of when I got to Europe once I was asked how the "mouse plague" in Australia (about which I knew nothing) was going!

I think you're referring to the car industry but economic cycles come and go. Even when recessed, car sales here make those in Australia a pimple by comparison. And certainly absolutely no bleak times for the car industry here in Czech Republic, it's booming. The combination of Skoda and Asian sales bail out VAG quite well, you need to look at the bigger picture.

[mik]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Sitting back here in Europe enjoying a lifestyle far superior to Australia's, that comment is very funny. Reminds me of when I got to Europe once I was asked how the "mouse plague" in Australia (about which I knew nothing) was going!

I think you're referring to the car industry but economic cycles come and go. Even when recessed, car sales here make those in Australia a pimple by comparison. And certainly absolutely no bleak times for the car industry here in Czech Republic, it's booming. The combination of Skoda and Asian sales bail out VAG quite well, you need to look at the bigger picture.

how is the life style superior?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Sitting back here in Europe enjoying a lifestyle far superior to Australia's, that comment is very funny. Reminds me of when I got to Europe once I was asked how the "mouse plague" in Australia (about which I knew nothing) was going!

I think you're referring to the car industry but economic cycles come and go. Even when recessed, car sales here make those in Australia a pimple by comparison. And certainly absolutely no bleak times for the car industry here in Czech Republic, it's booming. The combination of Skoda and Asian sales bail out VAG quite well, you need to look at the bigger picture.

Lol, one minor country with a strong economy doesn't make up a picture for the rest of the European continent.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by mik

how is the life style superior?

Well, the driving side of things is far less stressful:-)

As retired rugby chap Campese stated once vis; he feels safer at 220km/h in Italy than at 110km/h here in OZ.

But, I'd not wish to be Greek, Spanish, French, Portugese. Not like to be a GB or German taxpayer funding bailouts. VW are doing ok for now, apparently.

Lifestyle beyond that? :-)

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Sitting back here in Europe enjoying a lifestyle far superior to Australia's, that comment is very funny. Reminds me of when I got to Europe once I was asked how the "mouse plague" in Australia (about which I knew nothing) was going!

I think you're referring to the car industry but economic cycles come and go. Even when recessed, car sales here make those in Australia a pimple by comparison. And certainly absolutely no bleak times for the car industry here in Czech Republic, it's booming. The combination of Skoda and Asian sales bail out VAG quite well, you need to look at the bigger picture.

So you mean things are going good where there is a cheaper workforce than the high-rolling EU nations?

If so I would agree.

Let's get to talking about car manufacturing in europe though. Clearly where established factories and markets have been placed, sales are dropping off. In tough times, cheap labour becomes the next economic power. Look at China.

[Rodge]

Edited.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

So you mean things are going good where there is a cheaper workforce than the high-rolling EU nations?

If so I would agree.

Let's get to talking about car manufacturing in europe though. Clearly where established factories and markets have been placed, sales are dropping off. In tough times, cheap labour becomes the next economic power. Look at China.

Europe has similar overcapacity problems as US car makers had a few years back,
government subsidies propping up inflated factory production to keep employment.

Companies need to down size production and work force, the icy chill of economic uncertainly
only adds weight to the necessity and the urgency to get going and do it.

[RASER]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Hey Hey, Dont lump Italy in with Greece, Spain, Ireland and Portugal.
Italy actually makes things, things that people want.

England doesnt own anything anymore, its basically just a curency exchange place.

PREZACTLY!

If Italy was not so corrupt and the rich stop raping the poor, it should have had the firepower to be the top place in Europe.

But too many crooks, politians, Mafia, Vatican, tax dodgers, black market all with its own agendas

When Germans want the best, they buy Italian, even the CEO of Porsche purchased a Ferrari!

Bring back the Lira would do the place wonders

FIAT have shut down a auto-plant in the south for 3 months, no point building cars for no customers, missed the boat, last into the Chinese market, lots of catching up to do.

The funny thing is, tables have turned, Chrysler has saved its a/rse//***!

[new2ford]

Italian products are not exactly a byword for quality.

I passed three trucks today carrying Renaults made in Czech Republic west along the motorway to France!

Lifestyle is different things to different people and I can only speak for central Europe (Germany and CZ from deep experience) but the quality of food and other ordinary goods, the quality of education and health services (and expertise), social support systems, the number and range of recreational and cultural activities, being able to move around cities quickly (it's called good public transport), yes, being able to drive between 130 and 220 on motorways(!) all leave Australia for dead. Australia is a bit of a blunt instrument, some things are nice but daily living is a bit bland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_average_wage

This wiki article rates Germany's disposable income at about 2/3rds of Australia, yet the price of food, restaurants, attractions, household goods, public transport and many other things is in the range of about 20-50 percent of Australian prices (in both Germany and CZ). Australia is phenominally expensive and the quality of what you get for all that money is crap, whether food, goods, building materials and PCs, services etc. I think this is also a lifestyle indicator. Australia has been quietly "governed" downhill by successive governments of both sides and the "near enough quality but lets have a good gouge" attitude of producers and suppliers has come round to bite us.

I'm finding bottles of Australian wine in the supermarkets in Germany selling for about $8 compared to their Australian price of about $25. Odd not?

Edit: on a cost of living calculator I've found that while Australian disposable income is 100% more than Czech, the Australian cost of living is 150% higher. Australian disposable income is 50% higher than Germany's but the Australian cost of living is 90% higher. Our retirement bank balance which was plumetting in Australia has slowed to a creep here. Now there's a tip for retirees with EU passports here...!

So - in answer to "Bleak times in Europe at the moment", no, everybody is quite fat (metaphorically) and happy thanks!

[new2ford]

Sorry I meant Renaults manufactured in Romania....

[RASER]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Italian products are not exactly a byword for quality!

Germans think so, thanks to Italian exports to Germany,its #1 export market [u know of alleged quality German engineering] it has kept "some" of Italy in work.

Anyway, wine is $1.5 a bottle in Italy, cheaper than mineral water,,,,and they still want it for less...wtf??

PS///Send Kozels...urgent!

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by RASER

Germans think so, thanks to Italian exports to Germany,its #1 export market [u know of alleged quality German engineering] it has kept "some" of Italy in work.

Anyway, wine is $1.5 a bottle in Italy, cheaper than mineral water,,,,and they still want it for less...wtf??

PS///Send Kozels...urgent!

LOL yes everything is changing. Beer is $1 a can (that's a big 500 mL can) or less in Czech Republic. You can get your Kozel at Dan Murphy's but iirc about 3x the price!

[mik]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Italian products are not exactly a byword for quality.

I passed three trucks today carrying Renaults made in Czech Republic west along the motorway to France!

Lifestyle is different things to different people and I can only speak for central Europe (Germany and CZ from deep experience) but the quality of food and other ordinary goods, the quality of education and health services (and expertise), social support systems, the number and range of recreational and cultural activities, being able to move around cities quickly (it's called good public transport), yes, being able to drive between 130 and 220 on motorways(!) all leave Australia for dead. Australia is a bit of a blunt instrument, some things are nice but daily living is a bit bland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_average_wage

This wiki article rates Germany's disposable income at about 2/3rds of Australia, yet the price of food, restaurants, attractions, household goods, public transport and many other things is in the range of about 20-50 percent of Australian prices (in both Germany and CZ). Australia is phenominally expensive and the quality of what you get for all that money is crap, whether food, goods, building materials and PCs, services etc. I think this is also a lifestyle indicator. Australia has been quietly "governed" downhill by successive governments of both sides and the "near enough quality but lets have a good gouge" attitude of producers and suppliers has come round to bite us.

I'm finding bottles of Australian wine in the supermarkets in Germany selling for about $8 compared to their Australian price of about $25. Odd not?

Edit: on a cost of living calculator I've found that while Australian disposable income is 100% more than Czech, the Australian cost of living is 150% higher. Australian disposable income is 50% higher than Germany's but the Australian cost of living is 90% higher. Our retirement bank balance which was plumetting in Australia has slowed to a creep here. Now there's a tip for retirees with EU passports here...!

So - in answer to "Bleak times in Europe at the moment", no, everybody is quite fat (metaphorically) and happy thanks!

sounds a fair assessment , years ago i was training a young bloke who was on a working holiday country hopping around the world, he said while he liked Australia, it was very hard to save money compared to other countries, basically he could`nt wait to get out of the place for that reason .

[Bossxr8]

You can keep your dark and dreery European wether.

At least the sun exists here, which most of Europe can't claim.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You can keep your dark and dreery European wether.

At least the sun exists here, which most of Europe can't claim.

Ha ha that's really funny. The sun has been boring down fiercely out of generally blue skies for the couple of months I've been here. Regularly between 30 and 35 degrees and really...like Australia, bloody damn hot, what else can I say!

From previous visits I know it can be sunny till November which is about as long as Melbourne sits under a grey pall every year and Sydney pours down with rain. Do you know the average annual rainfall in Sydney is higher than the British Isles? Anyway it costs less to go to the beaches of Croatia than it does to get to Queensland.

This is seriously OT lol!

[Bossxr8]

Notice I said most of Europe, which implies some of it isn't.

Without knowing exactly where you are its a bit hard to know.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Notice I said most of Europe, which implies some of it isn't.

Without knowing exactly where you are its a bit hard to know.

Central Europe. It's like this all over except UK I believe.

What's more, we do it without aircon.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Pro's and Cons can be argued forever... Been to CZ and Germany. Germany during the world cup and CZ just last year (And boy do they love their beer!!!)

I still remember buying a ventolin puffer in Berlin as I was caught short of breath and needed one pronto. I think it was 14 Euro... around 2.5 times our price.

Anyway... you can argue back and forth all day. Most of Europe gets a whole heap of sun... I should know, dad is in Northern Italy now and he is cooking...

Been to Stockholm in Summer??? 18hrs of daylight! Was still bright at 9pm and sun started to rise after the night at around 4ish... Freaked me out to no end!