Cap and ball pistol circa 1850

TURBOTAXI · 14-03-2010, 08:50 PM

Hi,

Wanted one of these for a while, next I want a flintlock or a percussion cap muzzle loader.

I am pretty impressed with the condition of it, and the fact its a matching numbers pistol. The handles are bone, and carved in one side (on the inside is an insciption "I will die for the South" I cant comment on the authenticity of it, but its pretty cool if it was real.

This is a .31 Pocket Pistol, but is clearly modeled off the colt of the day.

CFOUR · 14-03-2010, 08:55 PM

nice heat mate.
custom ammo for it or off the rack?

flappist · 14-03-2010, 09:08 PM

Cap and ball....

It is a black powder revolver, it does not use cartridge ammunition.

BOSHOG · 14-03-2010, 09:15 PM

where would you find something like that? its a really interesting item (im a bit of a history buff)

i wouldnt imagine there would be many in condition like that left in the world let alone in NSW

xtremerus · 14-03-2010, 09:23 PM

very nice

CFOUR · 14-03-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Cap and ball....

It is a black powder revolver, it does not use cartridge ammunition.

yes but can you get ammo off the rack still?

TURBOTAXI · 14-03-2010, 09:29 PM

They are about, there are more bad ones than good ones. The best ones appear brand new, are boxed and have a history trail (letters, sales documents etc...). For the really top notch stuff with an interesting history fetches pretty big money.

For pre 1900 you don't need a pistol licence as long as you dont use it. Your A or B class licence is sufficient in NSW.

You find them on line, there are people out there who collect antiques, or you can go to a gun show.

TURBOTAXI · 14-03-2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFOUR

yes but can you get ammo off the rack still?

If I understand correctly lead OOSG shot is about .312
So if someone ever did want to use one of these they could possibly do that. But I bought this as a collector piece, not to use.

flappist · 14-03-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFOUR

yes but can you get ammo off the rack still?

Yes, at your local fishing shop. But they have holes in them.......

TURBOTAXI · 14-03-2010, 11:22 PM

flappist - any comments on value?

BJ · 14-03-2010, 11:45 PM

I use to have a fair bit to do with theses a few years ago, an uncle of mine was the President of the Antique and historical gun guild here in Melbourne and i was in there archives. I am glad you have stated it is not a Colt and that it is a colt copy as the etching does not look like the quality of the Colt factory even give its age. And for that year in the Colt's the series number start with year 1850/ at 12000 and go to 1851 and start with 16000.

here's a site that may help you in the future.

www.coltparts.com

GreenMachine · 15-03-2010, 12:07 AM

Lovely old thing - particularly interesting with the inscription. Do you plan to use it? Edit - just saw that you don't..

I'll pull out my 1886 Winchester 12 gauge and post up some pics next week... Does anyone else have an heirloom?

jaydee · 15-03-2010, 01:08 AM

I have a few old guns but heres a couple of revolvers. The top one is pretty old not sure exactly (early 1800's?)but it's very crudely made, no bore in the barrel, about a .45.
The second one is a little pin fire revolver. Notice it has no trigger guard, you fold the trigger and put it in your pocket, about a .22 calibre or smaller. It's also an octagonal barrel.
There are no makers name on either gun, just some hall marks on the little one.
These are on my collectors license as you cant get ammo for them.

Ohio XB · 15-03-2010, 04:57 AM

Interesting guns. I don't think I've ever seen any like them, but I am not a huge gun buff either. Thanks for posting pics.

Steve

trippytaka · 15-03-2010, 11:25 AM

Strange question... and at the risk of sounding completely stupid, how much damage would one of them do to you? Compared to say, a .22?

flappist · 15-03-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

flappist - any comments on value?

Difficult question. It is like asking what is a 1970 Falcon worth. To some nothing, to others lots.

Be careful of collector's advice and values as more than a few of them are predatory. They are the "real estate agents" of the gun industry.

It looks in good condition and if the inscription refers to the war between the states in USA then over there it may be extremely valuable. I once had a Model 92 Winchester with a low serial number that I thought I had done well selling for $1000. The buyer, a collector, sold it in USA for $10k US (when our dollar was about $0.60).

Google yank gun or history fora, post the pics and ask the questions. You may be in possession of a big lump of gold

.

But whatever you do DO NOT send it over there. You will be breaking about a bazillion laws and best case will get a huge fine and the gun destroyed. The worst case is beyond terrifying.

If you do decide to export it I have contacts that can sort it for you legally. PM me if you need to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Strange question... and at the risk of sounding completely stupid, how much damage would one of them do to you? Compared to say, a .22?

It is a very low power black powder revolver. The muzzle velocity would be something like a high powered slingshot.
Close up it would cause a reasonable but not deep wound and if it contacted a vital organ then possibly death.
It would have a very short range possibly less than 50m.

A .22 while having a much smaller projectile has a much higher muzzle velocity and therefore much more energy. It would cause a much nastier and deeper wound with significantly more trauma. N.B. 22LR.

In saying this remember all firearms are dangerous and should be treated with the utmost respect as, like powertools, when misused can hurt, maim or kill.

jaydee · 15-03-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

Strange question... and at the risk of sounding completely stupid, how much damage would one of them do to you? Compared to say, a .22?

Some of those little .22 or smaller types were usually ladies guns. They would carry them in their purse or garter in case of robberies, usually stage coach type or street robberies.
That little one of mine with no trigger guard was so a "gentleman" could carry something that would at least go bang and give him a fighting chance. It was usually in a coat pocket or something instead of having to strap on a big old 45 in a holster.
Put it this way, I wouldn't want to be shot in the face with one at close range.
That big old clunker of mine, I've said it's got no bore, what I meant was it has no grooves, it's just smooth on the inside (and off centre).

TURBOTAXI · 15-03-2010, 10:56 PM

Jaydee: Nice!

jaydee · 16-03-2010, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBOTAXI

Jaydee: Nice!

Thanks, I'm a bit envious of yours though. I'd definitely be doing some research on that baby.
I'm more into long arms, got a couple of nice collectors items, mostly hand me downs from relatives, one that belonged to my my great great grand father, combination rifle shotgun, German made, thats my fave.

eMpTy · 16-03-2010, 02:17 AM

Interesting reading, looks like a bit of history in those pic's.
I was visiting a mate today, noticed he was melting down lead when I arrived. I thought he was making up some fishing sinkers, guessed wrong. When he opened up the dye out drops a newly formed 50cal slug.
"what's that for? Your slingshot?"
"Nope"
He then opened his gun cabinet to show me the old percussion cap muzzle loader he had in there. Beautiful looking rifle, not too sure on the details of it as I didn't have much time, hopefully he will let me snap a few pic's of it the next time I'm there.

TURBOTAXI · 18-03-2010, 07:03 PM

Yeah I have a Jukar .45 flintlock rifle too, its a repro but still pretty.
I once took the flintlock, balls, powder, wads, salt and pepper and two dogs and went bush for a week. It was a load of fun, and you get good at keping on target when your next meal depends on it. (the flash of the charge in the pan can be off putting and eyebrow burning) One of the guys I go to the gun club with for DTL each month is a black powder fiend, he brought a 150 year old percussion shotgun last week for me to try, I couldnt hit anything wit it, but he could break clays with it.... I wish Australia was like America (only) in regards to black powder and air rifle are not considered firearms and any one of age can buy them. Lets face it, you are not going to have a Strathfield or Port Aurthur style incident when you have to take 5-30 seconds to reload.

TURBOTAXI · 18-03-2010, 07:16 PM

I have a Belgian made side by side 12g that was given to me by my mother when I was 4. It was her fathers rabbit gun many moons ago when that was how famlies got some extra protein in their diet. I used to shoot marbles out of it with the firing pin for fun.
It has never been tightened and is really in as new condition. Its a hammer gun so was probably made between early to mid 1900's

I have an almost idetical one with damascus barrells that is stamped nitro proof and has tower of london stampings. It is a Crawford from memory. I dont use that anymore but it is technically safe to use with light loads.

I have 2 x BSA Martini cadets, one as original in .310 (for class shooting) and one built into a .17 with stainless barrel, khales scope and custom wood.

I love the historical suff. I can post pics of the above if anyone is an enthusiast who likes these things.