Big brand profit/losses, ie, Toyota, ford holden... Its not true is it!!?

[EDManual]

All this talk of these companies over the years making no money, or losing doesnt sound right does it?

We all know of Toyota reporting tiny profits of a few million a year, every year on revenues of $4.5 Billion! in OZ and that is only due to their creative accounting.

Wouldnt it be exactly the same for Ford and Holden? They say they are at a loss every year by some amount. But I dont buy it.... How could they be having massive revenues, be getting investment money from abroad etc if there are no profits? Its obvious there is creative accounting at work. All the profits go overseas, but as long as there are people in work I guess that keeps people(govt) happy enough not to complain about these giants.

Toyota had a tax bill of what $700million a few years back after the ATO did an audit of their dodgy accountin, but didnt pay it, seemed to be forgotten?. Why would they when they can say, seeya to OZ so easily and Rudd or whoever will says never mind about that. Just stay! We'll forget about that bill :-)

How do they do it?

Toyota OZ pay huge prices for anything Toyota Jap do for it. How about 1000 times the going rate for a wiper motor (example, not an actual example). Or $1000 an hour for some Japan based research. That moves the money to japan. So easy. Spend all the money until there is no profit.

Its great.

......

[Iggypoppin']

Where did you get the information that the companies you listed all posted losses every year?

[EDManual]

These companies make close to nothing every year, a 10 ot 20, even 50 million here or there is nothing. 1 million on 1 Billion is a 0.1% Profit. In reality a $50 million profit on $4billion revenue is nothing. Toyota has made in the vicinity of $5 million every year for quite a while. very convenient.

[Piotr]

They need to pay wages, pay for materials, pay for research and development etc. Thats where the revenue goes

[imugli]

I'd suggest things are a little different for Ford & Holden. They have had to develop the platforms for Falcon / Commodore themselves and ammortise those development costs. This would increase their cost base considerably, me thinks.

[red_hotxr6]

Anyone remember when the EB GT came out, the report in one of the magazines did a run down on the cost of the brakes, research, that is and it was huge, just for the brakes, so just figure what each part that they deem necessary to " upgrade" or be a " performance" part, it ends up costing, i am not saying the " big wigs" get a " decent " wage but still, the profit margin is still small.Look at the U.S.A there car companies are crying " poor" too..

[Wally]

My guess is that a US parent company doesn't hang onto a Australian subsdiary company for the good of it's employees or US/OZ bilateral relations. There has to be some sought of financial reward in the form of fees, interest on loans, etc.

[GT849]

In my experiance with R&D it is a fully refundable expence. Sure its money out the door but they get most of it back too.

[Bossxr8]

Toyota have been cooking the books for a long time, its widely known. They can't sell that many cars and make that small a profit. Its funny that in the year after the ATO nailed them for underpaying taxes their profits suddenly increased massively.

Ford and Holdens profits are on the money. They can make $250 million + profits in a good year. A bad year can easily lose them $100 million +.

Ford lost around $60-70 million last year.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Toyota have been cooking the books for a long time, its widely known. They can't sell that many cars and make that small a profit. Its funny that in the year after the ATO nailed them for underpaying taxes their profits suddenly increased massively.

Ford and Holdens profits are on the money. They can make $250 million + profits in a good year. A bad year can easily lose them $100 million +.

Ford lost around $60-70 million last year.

And Holden have lost $140+ million a few years in a row now. Interesting when profits are announced this year. Ford have a small labour base for a small output. But they also paid a lot of redundancies so that will melt the books. However, Toyota and Holden have only just stopped pumping out cars and are still holding onto relatively large forces. Will be very interesting indeed.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

And Holden have lost $140+ million a few years in a row now.

If they have a loss again we'll just hear the same old "but we're paying off the VE development"

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Torxteer

If they have a loss again we'll just hear the same old "but we're paying off the VE development"

Just don't mention they have reportedly over 20,000 cars that they carn't sell sitting around in yards. If each car costs, at a rough guess $20-25,000, as an average across the range, in terms of what they cost Holden to build, that adds up to around $50 million of unsold stock.

And i've heard some sources say the numbers may be even higher than 20,000.

Thats a hell of a lot of money sitting there gathering dust.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Torxteer

If they have a loss again we'll just hear the same old "but we're paying off the VE development"

They're losing money..period....lots of it...

So is Ford....

So put the old "accounting theory" above in the 'garbage' where it belongs.