Commodore sportwagon at Ford's proving ground

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes, Ford make a bigger profit from wagons, unfortunately holden don't though.... they have to pay for the tooling some how.

Don't be an ****, you know that I meant to make it clear that Ford's still trying to flog off all of the BFs still sitting on lots (and taking a loss on them), in comparison to Sportwagons being sold like pies at the football - and also that Holden make a bigger profit on the wagons than they do on the sedans at the moment. We (well, not you, obviously) are paying a couple grand extra for a wagon, and it costs them very little to produce a wagon over a sedan.

I'm just telling it like it is (to my knowledge) mate, not need to twist my words. I'm not validating my ownership of a Holden (I also own a Ford, not that it'd automatically make bias a moot point) by lying about their success when they've taken a 27% sales shrinkage. This forum is crazily biased sometimes.

Good?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Don't be an ****, you know that I meant to make it clear that Ford's still trying to flog off all of the BFs still sitting on lots (and taking a loss on them), in comparison to Sportwagons being sold like pies at the football - and also that Holden make a bigger profit on the wagons than they do on the sedans at the moment. We (well, not you, obviously) are paying a couple grand extra for a wagon, and it costs them very little to produce a wagon over a sedan.

I'm just telling it like it is (to my knowledge) mate, not need to twist my words. I'm not validating my ownership of a Holden by lying about their success when they've taken a 27% sales shrinkage.

Good?

What? You own a holden?? you'd never have been able tell....

The commodore hatch costs much more to build than the sedan because there are development and tooling costs that need to be recovered.
Im not sure what that amount is and how many years/units it will be spread over but it has to be paid for somehow.
Holden have not seen any incremental sales from the hatch, in fact i could see a case for them to drop the sedan in some models and only offer the hatch because from a practical sense they're so similar its not worth offering both, especially in the base models where most go to fleets.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

So in other words, a major revision. Fitting FG drivelines and the FG interior to it would be what I would call a major revision, and will probably come with a styling change too to make it resemble the FG more closely. This is the most likely option because it will cost the least, although it will be difficult to effectively replicate the FG's front end look on the BFIII because the front end architecture of the two cars is completely different. Not to mention they already gave the BFII/BFIII a 'sort-of' FG face anyway.

I didn't say anything about changing panels or interiors. I think it may just be solely an engine and auto upgrade, which won't cost that much to do, if anything it will need the 5 speed auto anyway if Ion don't start up again.

As the BF wagon engine is 90% of the FG version it wouldn't be hard to fit that either. The only thing that may need to be changed would be the sump. I think they could do that quite cheaply. Maybe just change the grille or something to make it look a little different. Put FG wheels on it maybe? Fleets don't care what it looks like, they just want the cargo space and cheap running on LPG.

They would never do a major revision or an all new model, it just doesn't sell enough.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I didn't say anything about changing panels or interiors. I think it may just be solely an engine and auto upgrade, which won't cost that much to do, if anything it will need the 5 speed auto anyway if Ion don't start up again.

As the BF wagon engine is 90% of the FG version it wouldn't be hard to fit that either. The only thing that may need to be changed would be the sump. I think they could do that quite cheaply. Maybe just change the grille or something to make it look a little different. Put FG wheels on it maybe? Fleets don't care what it looks like, they just want the cargo space and cheap running on LPG.

They would never do a major revision or an all new model, it just doesn't sell enough.

Well, next years new Territory is meant to have the FG engine / gearbox combination as well as an FG style interior.

Since the Terri and the B series Falcon are closely linked, maybe some of that development budget for them both can be shared.

Maybe wagon might get all the Terri / FG themed interior stuff?

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Don't be an ****, you know that I meant to make it clear that Ford's still trying to flog off all of the BFs still sitting on lots (and taking a loss on them)

Are you sure about that? Wagon is strictly built to order and I would be amazed to know there is even one brand new wagon on a dealer lot that is unsold. It would have to be an '07 build surely?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

.......... and it costs them very little to produce a wagon over a sedan.

Good?

No......not good..

You're not as smart as you're trying to make out you are

Mmmmmm......Lets see....

Oh yeah Holden had to tool up for:

1. Bodysides (both sides).
2. Roof
3. Liftgate inner and outer
4. Rear floor
5. Quarter panels (both sides).
6. D-Pillar inner
7. Roof head rails
8. All the associated rear end interior trim
9. Rear end glass
10. New fuel tank ?
11. etc

So you think that was all for free ?

Ford's Wagon tooling was amortizated over 6 years after AU launch, it is worth nothing now, and the cost of the car is basically material & overhead only. The VE hatch needs to sell more than it is atm to pay for the investment made. Part of that investment was based on export volume (not much happening there for hatch is there ?).

The VE hatch is NOT selling enough, infact it has taken sales away from the Sedan. GMH are not making money on that car........

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

No......not good..

You're not as smart as you're trying to make out you are

Mmmmmm......Lets see....

Oh yeah Holden had to tool up for:

1. Bodysides (both sides).
2. Roof
3. Liftgate inner and outer
4. Rear floor
5. Quarter panels (both sides).
6. D-Pillar inner
7. Roof head rails
8. All the associated rear end interior trim
9. Rear end glass
10. New fuel tank ?
11. etc

So you think that was all for free ?

Ford's Wagon tooling was amortizated over 6 years after AU launch, it is worth nothing now, and the cost of the car is basically material & overhead only. The VE hatch needs to sell more than it is atm to pay for the investment made. Part of that investment was based on export volume (not much happening there for hatch is there ?).

The VE hatch is NOT selling enough, infact it has taken sales away from the Sedan. GMH are not making money on that car........

I am guessing 7 draw dies at 250k each, at least 25 process dies at 100k each, and that's just to stamp the body shell...........