Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden

[BroadyFord]

Sorry I'm not posting the link in full as I'm doing this via phone:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...o_to_wage_cuts

Looks like it's bye bye Holden!

With this, plus the FBT changes likely destroying their sales of VF, they'd be mad NOT to leave!

[GazzF6]

The end could be near, still no surprise really.
Although not a fan of the Red Team, I don't like to see people lose their jobs...

[GQ_Smooth]

They have the excuse they need to cut their losses before 2022. While I understand union members not wanting their redundancy payouts capped to 52 weeks (which is still more generous than 90% of the Australian work force that is normally capped at 3 months), it will be a public relations war that will have no winners. Both sides will blame each other. People who hate unions will have their soap box and those that don't trust overseas management will have their outlet to point out lies they were told 12+months ago. I see it getting very ugly (unlike Ford). I believe Holden is trying to fight a public relations battle showing the Australian public they tried their hardest to keep manufacturing viable but there was to many hurdles to overcome (even though I believe they know it isn't viable in our current climate).

My 2 cents.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

They have the excuse they need to cut their losses before 2022. While I understand union members not wanting their redundancy payouts capped to 52 weeks (which is still more generous than 90% of the Australian work force that is normally capped at 3 months), it will be a public relations war that will have no winners. Both sides will blame each other. People who hate unions will have their soap box and those that don't trust overseas management will have their outlet to point out lies they were told 12+months ago. I see it getting very ugly (unlike Ford). I believe Holden is trying to fight a public relations battle showing the Australian public they tried their hardest to keep manufacturing viable but there was to many hurdles to overcome (even though I believe they know it isn't viable in our current climate).

My 2 cents.

I've said it before, Ford did the sums and accepted the facts. They were then honest and open about their situation.

As usual, GM/Holden cook the books, big note themselves, and whip up a frenzy. Disgusting.

I feel for all the people that will lose their jobs and hope (if Holden does stop local manufacture) that they give plenty of notice and don't just pull the pin one day when the cash runs out.

[vztrt]

This will be interesting.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Sorry I'm not posting the link in full as I'm doing this via phone:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and...o_to_wage_cuts

Looks like it's bye bye Holden!

With this, plus the FBT changes likely destroying their sales of VF, they'd be mad NOT to leave!

And when Holden close down just watch them scream and cry. It reminds me of dealing with spoilt children, most brain washed by their unions.

I remember an ongoing news story many years ago (back when Hawke was in power), about a small manufacturer who employed about twenty people. The unions had been picketing the place for about 3 weeks demanding the usual, more money, better conditions, etc. All the time the owner of the business was continually saying he can only just keep the doors open as it was claiming the business was running at a small loss as it is. Anyway after about 3-4 weeks the owner of the company walks out and announces that he has just put the company into receivership and all was lost.

The bit that I have never forgotten is the reaction from the union heavy weights there. They all cheered with joy, stating to the news cameras that this is a lesson that all should learn by, "no one should cross the unions or we will bring you down"(or words to that effect). However employees reactions were not the same as the unions and most were totally shocked as it began to sink into their heads that they longer had a job.

Unions true interest is in power, not people.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by dddd

And when Holden close down just watch them scream and cry. It reminds me of dealing with spoilt children, most brain washed by their unions.

I remember an ongoing news story many years ago (back when Hawke was in power), about a small manufacturer who employed about twenty people. The unions had been picketing the place for about 3 weeks demanding the usual, more money, better conditions, etc. All the time the owner of the business was continually saying he can only just keep the doors open as it was claiming the business was running at a small loss as it is. Anyway after about 3-4 weeks the owner of the company walks out and announces that he has just put the company into receivership and all was lost.

The bit that I have never forgotten is the reaction from the union heavy weights there. They all cheered with joy, stating to the news cameras that this is a lesson that all should learn by, "no one should cross the unions or we will bring you down"(or words to that effect). However employees reactions were not the same as the unions and most were totally shocked as it began to sink into their heads that they longer had a job.

Unions true interest is in power, not people.

just out of curiosity were they below the average wage?
and the condition, how many were killed on the floor before the strike?

[imugli]

Originally Posted by dddd

And when Holden close down just watch them scream and cry. It reminds me of dealing with spoilt children, most brain washed by their unions.

I remember an ongoing news story many years ago (back when Hawke was in power), about a small manufacturer who employed about twenty people. The unions had been picketing the place for about 3 weeks demanding the usual, more money, better conditions, etc. All the time the owner of the business was continually saying he can only just keep the doors open as it was claiming the business was running at a small loss as it is. Anyway after about 3-4 weeks the owner of the company walks out and announces that he has just put the company into receivership and all was lost.

The bit that I have never forgotten is the reaction from the union heavy weights there. They all cheered with joy, stating to the news cameras that this is a lesson that all should learn by, "no one should cross the unions or we will bring you down"(or words to that effect). However employees reactions were not the same as the unions and most were totally shocked as it began to sink into their heads that they longer had a job.

Unions true interest is in power, not people.

Completely agree.

I remember during the GFC days, Bosch asked their employees to take reduced hours, offering to let employees take it as annual leave, sick leave etc. Unions rejected it, so they sacked 10% of their workers straight up.

I'm sure some of the guys that lost their job had probably been there forever and a day, and would have little to no hope of finding jobs elsewhere, especially at that time.

Make no mistake, unions are political organisations first and foremost and they'll sacrifice their own in a heartbeat if they think it will increase their power or gain them some sympathy with the public.

[stazza]

Not all Unions are bad.

[Bundy]

Originally Posted by dddd

And when Holden close down just watch them scream and cry. It reminds me of dealing with spoilt children, most brain washed by their unions.

I remember an ongoing news story many years ago (back when Hawke was in power), about a small manufacturer who employed about twenty people. The unions had been picketing the place for about 3 weeks demanding the usual, more money, better conditions, etc. All the time the owner of the business was continually saying he can only just keep the doors open as it was claiming the business was running at a small loss as it is. Anyway after about 3-4 weeks the owner of the company walks out and announces that he has just put the company into receivership and all was lost.

The bit that I have never forgotten is the reaction from the union heavy weights there. They all cheered with joy, stating to the news cameras that this is a lesson that all should learn by, "no one should cross the unions or we will bring you down"(or words to that effect). However employees reactions were not the same as the unions and most were totally shocked as it began to sink into their heads that they longer had a job.

Unions true interest is in power, not people.

You're a pulling my change right? if you believe what you've typed is anywhere near creditable.

If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice.

Here's a link (May 2013) on who gets paid the big bucks and it isn't your blue collar colleagues and that's what the fight is about
Note the Exec average (average I say) salary

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226638109283

THE pay and perks package awarded to Holden's key executive team has surged in value by almost 30 per cent despite the woes besetting the car maker.

Holden's key management team shared in a remuneration pool totalling $6.8 million for 2012, up from $5.3 million a year earlier, according to company accounts.

The splurge on Holden's top brass came as company - which has sacked 500 workers over the past year - plunged into the red with a $152.8 million loss.

It also comes after the Federal and state governments pledged $275 million in assistance for the car maker last year.

Holden bucks the trend among many of the country's largest companies, such as BHP Billiton, QBE, BlueScope, Harvey Norman and Perpetual, who have reined in executive spending in light of a tougher business climate.

Holden government and corporate affairs director Matt Hobbs said the rise in pay for senior managers followed an expansion of the company's executive team from 12 to 15 members.

Mr Hobbs declined to say if chief executive Mike Devereux received a pay rise but said Holden's remuneration packages were below peer companies.

A rough calculation indicates Holden executives have seen their pay packets fatten over the year despite the addition of three people to its top decision-making unit.

On average, executive members received a package worth $455,000 last year - up from $442,600 in 2011.

Holden's financial statement also reveals that among its eight directors, only three attended every meeting they were scheduled to.

The car maker tumbled into the red after booking $226 million in one-off charges relating to an ongoing restructure at the company, including a $198 million writedown in the value of its Elizabeth plant in South Australia.

Net profit weighed in at $73.2 million - down 18 per cent from the previous year - if "one off" items are stripped out of the result.

The high-profile car maker also confirmed it was losing cash on each vehicle it made in Australia, but making a profit on imports.

"We are losing money making vehicles in Adelaide right now but we are making money importing cars," Mr Devereux said.

"We are trying to take steps to reverse those losses."

Despite the loss, Mr Devereux said Holden was committed to making cars in Australia and had a strong balance sheet with no debt.

"This industry is far too big and far too important for the county to let it go and we are committed to making sure it is here for a long time," he said

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Bundy

You're a pulling my change right? if you believe what you've typed is anywhere near creditable.

If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice.

Here's a link (May 2013) on who gets paid the big bucks and it isn't your blue collar colleagues and that's what the fight is about
Note the Exec average (average I say) salary

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226638109283

THE pay and perks package awarded to Holden's key executive team has surged in value by almost 30 per cent despite the woes besetting the car maker.

Holden's key management team shared in a remuneration pool totalling $6.8 million for 2012, up from $5.3 million a year earlier, according to company accounts.

The splurge on Holden's top brass came as company - which has sacked 500 workers over the past year - plunged into the red with a $152.8 million loss.

It also comes after the Federal and state governments pledged $275 million in assistance for the car maker last year.

Holden bucks the trend among many of the country's largest companies, such as BHP Billiton, QBE, BlueScope, Harvey Norman and Perpetual, who have reined in executive spending in light of a tougher business climate.

Holden government and corporate affairs director Matt Hobbs said the rise in pay for senior managers followed an expansion of the company's executive team from 12 to 15 members.

Mr Hobbs declined to say if chief executive Mike Devereux received a pay rise but said Holden's remuneration packages were below peer companies.

A rough calculation indicates Holden executives have seen their pay packets fatten over the year despite the addition of three people to its top decision-making unit.

On average, executive members received a package worth $455,000 last year - up from $442,600 in 2011.

Holden's financial statement also reveals that among its eight directors, only three attended every meeting they were scheduled to.

The car maker tumbled into the red after booking $226 million in one-off charges relating to an ongoing restructure at the company, including a $198 million writedown in the value of its Elizabeth plant in South Australia.

Net profit weighed in at $73.2 million - down 18 per cent from the previous year - if "one off" items are stripped out of the result.

The high-profile car maker also confirmed it was losing cash on each vehicle it made in Australia, but making a profit on imports.

"We are losing money making vehicles in Adelaide right now but we are making money importing cars," Mr Devereux said.

"We are trying to take steps to reverse those losses."

Despite the loss, Mr Devereux said Holden was committed to making cars in Australia and had a strong balance sheet with no debt.

"This industry is far too big and far too important for the county to let it go and we are committed to making sure it is here for a long time," he said

congrats man !!!! you've single handedly just showed all the anti union morons how credible and uneducated they are . well done .

[BroadyFord]

The future of Australia's car industry will be determined next Friday:

Holden's future up to workers


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226690478180

CARMAKER Holden's 1200-strong Victorian workforce may decide the company's manufacturing future in Australia when it votes on a revised workplace agreement for factory workers in Adelaide next week.

Employees from both states will vote on a varied enterprise bargaining agreement for workers at Holden's northern Adelaide factory next week. The issue is dividing the South Australian workforce.

Australian Manufacturing Workers Union South Australian secretary John Camillo has said a "no" vote next Friday would see the company close its plant at Elizabeth in northern Adelaide in 2016, regardless of any extra financial assistance secured from federal and state governments.

While the changes to the EBA affect only the Elizabeth workforce, a vote of all employees covered under the agreement will take place to determine whether to accept the changes.

Holden employs about 1700 workers at Elizabeth and a further 1200 in Victoria, where the workforce has a lower rate of union membership.

Mr Camillo said the Elizabeth workforce was split "about 50-50" on whether to accept the revised EBA, which will deliver $15m in savings to Holden after more than a month of negotiations over 43 separate claims by the company.

"I honestly believe that if we don't get the flexibility that they want, they will close down."

He said he was concerned that if Victorian workers did not support the revised EBA, it could be voted down.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

The future of Australia's car industry will be determined next Friday:

Holden's future up to workers


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226690478180

CARMAKER Holden's 1200-strong Victorian workforce may decide the company's manufacturing future in Australia when it votes on a revised workplace agreement for factory workers in Adelaide next week.

Employees from both states will vote on a varied enterprise bargaining agreement for workers at Holden's northern Adelaide factory next week. The issue is dividing the South Australian workforce.

Australian Manufacturing Workers Union South Australian secretary John Camillo has said a "no" vote next Friday would see the company close its plant at Elizabeth in northern Adelaide in 2016, regardless of any extra financial assistance secured from federal and state governments.

While the changes to the EBA affect only the Elizabeth workforce, a vote of all employees covered under the agreement will take place to determine whether to accept the changes.

Holden employs about 1700 workers at Elizabeth and a further 1200 in Victoria, where the workforce has a lower rate of union membership.

Mr Camillo said the Elizabeth workforce was split "about 50-50" on whether to accept the revised EBA, which will deliver $15m in savings to Holden after more than a month of negotiations over 43 separate claims by the company.

"I honestly believe that if we don't get the flexibility that they want, they will close down."

He said he was concerned that if Victorian workers did not support the revised EBA, it could be voted down.

I think thats BS that the workers in Victoria can vote and effect the outcome of something that is mainly effecting SA's plant.

I think regardless of the pay cut or not, Holden will close its doors, they're just trying to bully and intimidate everyone into accepting less conditions so that it doesn't cost them as much to pay everyone out.

How about they cut their sponsorship deals to AFL/NRL and stop funding V8 Supercars, how much money is going into that?

From the above link with management getting pay rises, but they want the guy on the bottom to take the hit? Who is the real villain here, AMWU or senior management?

Fair enough on the pay freeze, no worries I would accept that, but hell no to losing redundancy entitlements.

[dddd]

Originally Posted by Bundy

You're a pulling my change right? if you believe what you've typed is anywhere near creditable.

If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice.

Here's a link (May 2013) on who gets paid the big bucks and it isn't your blue collar colleagues and that's what the fight is about
Note the Exec average (average I say) salary

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226638109283

THE pay and perks package awarded to Holden's key executive team has surged in value by almost 30 per cent despite the woes besetting the car maker.

Holden's key management team shared in a remuneration pool totalling $6.8 million for 2012, up from $5.3 million a year earlier, according to company accounts.

The splurge on Holden's top brass came as company - which has sacked 500 workers over the past year - plunged into the red with a $152.8 million loss.

It also comes after the Federal and state governments pledged $275 million in assistance for the car maker last year.

Holden bucks the trend among many of the country's largest companies, such as BHP Billiton, QBE, BlueScope, Harvey Norman and Perpetual, who have reined in executive spending in light of a tougher business climate.

Holden government and corporate affairs director Matt Hobbs said the rise in pay for senior managers followed an expansion of the company's executive team from 12 to 15 members.

Mr Hobbs declined to say if chief executive Mike Devereux received a pay rise but said Holden's remuneration packages were below peer companies.

A rough calculation indicates Holden executives have seen their pay packets fatten over the year despite the addition of three people to its top decision-making unit.

On average, executive members received a package worth $455,000 last year - up from $442,600 in 2011.

Holden's financial statement also reveals that among its eight directors, only three attended every meeting they were scheduled to.

The car maker tumbled into the red after booking $226 million in one-off charges relating to an ongoing restructure at the company, including a $198 million writedown in the value of its Elizabeth plant in South Australia.

Net profit weighed in at $73.2 million - down 18 per cent from the previous year - if "one off" items are stripped out of the result.

The high-profile car maker also confirmed it was losing cash on each vehicle it made in Australia, but making a profit on imports.

"We are losing money making vehicles in Adelaide right now but we are making money importing cars," Mr Devereux said.

"We are trying to take steps to reverse those losses."

Despite the loss, Mr Devereux said Holden was committed to making cars in Australia and had a strong balance sheet with no debt.

"This industry is far too big and far too important for the county to let it go and we are committed to making sure it is here for a long time," he said

Firstly, I agree that Holden management is setting a terrible example with the pay rises they have given themselves in this particular case. However, I notice from that same article that it would appear Holden is in the minority nowadays when it comes to management spending, noting that most large companies have in fact reined in their management spending.

As for your comment “If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice”. As Australia is a very young country and simply doesn’t have the associated population problems of these countries, it would be very safe to say, that even without the unions, we wouldn’t end up working in those conditions for a “bowl of rice” as you suggested.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting there is no place for unions, what I am saying is that the unions have changed massively over the years to the point they are now a political party (the labour party) and have very little in common with the unions of say 20-30 years ago.

An example. Nowadays a large percentage of labour party delegates are ex union heavies and it has basically got to the point where to get to any position of power within the labour party today you have to have this union back ground. Just about all of Gillard’s front bench were ex union and I would assume most of Rudd’s current front bench are ex union.

Another example of unions running the labour party, the deal Rudd did recently with caucus and the unions to protect himself from being rolled if he should win the next election. The trade off was that the unions get to choose his entire front bench should he win. This current union domination is also the same reason why the labour party is so different today as say during the Hawke and Keating period.

In my opinion, the way the unions treat Australian workers nowadays reminds me of an old cartoon I once read. It was set on a farm in the USA just before thanksgiving, all the farmyard animals were complaining and questioning the turkey as to why he gets fed three times more than all the rest of them, the turkey with a smug smile replies “because I’m special that’s why”.

The point I’m making is that Australia is part of a global market whether we like it or not, and as we already have amongst the best, if not the best working conditions in the world, how can we continually demand more and more and expect the country to remain competitive. The unions wanting to keep membership up (like political parties) are all too willing to tell us what we want to hear i.e. we’re special and deserve more.

A couple of points of interest of where I see the country heading.

Six years ago Australia had the second cheapest electricity in the world, today we are the second dearest. When you consider cheap power was the only advantage Australian manufacturing had over the rest of the world, it worries me considerably.

Six years ago Australia had no debt and thirty billion in the bank, today the federal government is about to lift the debt ceiling to over three hundred billion and Australia has the world’s fastest growing debt.

I just wish the unions had stuck to what they were originally formed to do and not grown that power hungry to the point of running the whole country.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by dddd

As for your comment “If it weren't for the unions (who have gone soft in last 10 yrs or so in my opinion) we'd be just like south east Asia or India, working stupid hours for peanuts or a bowl of rice”. As Australia is a very young country and simply doesn’t have the associated population problems of these countries, it would be very safe to say, that even without the unions, we wouldn’t end up working in those conditions for a “bowl of rice” as you suggested..

Funny that, when you consider the 457 scenario and all the foreign labour of late that are willing and do work for less. It has in fact brought our wages down across many sectors of industry.

Originally Posted by dddd

A couple of points of interest of where I see the country heading.

Six years ago Australia had the second cheapest electricity in the world, today we are the second dearest. When you consider cheap power was the only advantage Australian manufacturing had over the rest of the world, it worries me considerably.

Six years ago Australia had no debt and thirty billion in the bank, today the federal government is about to lift the debt ceiling to over three hundred billion and Australia has the world’s fastest growing debt.

I just wish the unions had stuck to what they were originally formed to do and not grown that power hungry to the point of running the whole country.

Well despite who's in control, be it ALP or LIB, the biggest union of all always has and always will run the country - The AIG.

[BroadyFord]

Keep in mind that this is the exact same situation as the Opel closure in Bochum, Germany. Workers there also refused to take a pay cut and as a result, GM immediately announced the closure of the plant in 2014.

Things have changed since the GFC; there's simply no room for driftwood in the new GM and they will not hesitate to rid themselves of loss-making operations.

The unions are playing with fire here.

[wrongwaynorris]

The unions as usual will do their absolute damndest to lose their members their jobs then attempt to blame anyone but themselves . As someone said earlier Union leaders have absolutely zero interest in their members or members welfare it is ALL about using the union movement as a stalking horse to get into politics .

[stazza]

Holden needs to just lay down and die already.

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by stazza

Holden needs to just lay down and die already.

I'm almost had it with hearing about this Holden dilemma, whether it's the doom or the spin. But it's wrong to just hope they will quickly die. It's very sad that so many people will be out of a job.

[jpd80]

Mr Camillo said Holden was trying to cap future voluntary redundancy payouts to 52 weeks.
"That means anyone who has worked for longer than 12 years gets a raw deal. And Holden has a lot of long term staff."

The workers had agreed to give up a 3 per cent pay rise due in November but would not accept wage freezes
for a further four years, Mr Camillo said. Holden is conducting detailed negotiations daily with unions and
workers until the August 9 deadline, Mr Camillo said.

"We are still in discussions and are looking at other parts of business to see where other savings might be made,
but the wage cuts and the capped VSPs (voluntary separation programs) are a bridge too far. Our workers will not
accept those conditions."

News Corp understands there are more than 40 points of negotiation, including flexible work hours, and
other efficiencies that would cut costs. Holden would not comment on the negotiations. A spokesman
said it is keeping the details of the negotiations private.

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Mr Camillo said Holden was trying to cap future voluntary redundancy payouts to 52 weeks.
"That means anyone who has worked for longer than 12 years gets a raw deal. And Holden has a lot of long term staff."

Well I'll be struck down by a feather. Haven't posts on this forum claimed a cap of 12 weeks, 19 weeks, ...
Silly Mr Camillo not knowing redundancy payments were already capped.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by TC200six

I'm almost had it with hearing about this Holden dilemma, whether it's the doom or the spin. But it's wrong to just hope they will quickly die. It's very sad that so many people will be out of a job.

I don't wish anyone to lose their job either. But it IS going to happen, so I wish holden would just admit it and get it over and done with. They just can't stand to 'lose' against Ford. They are as much of sore losers as their fans are and can't admit the obvious and take it on the chin.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by stazza

I don't wish anyone to lose their job either. But it IS going to happen, so I wish holden would just admit it and get it over and done with. They just can't stand to 'lose' against Ford. They are as much of sore losers as their fans are and can't admit the obvious and take it on the chin.

Oh please. You think Holden is in a race to see who can sack the most people and lose the most market share? Because Holden hates Ford being a bigger failure.

Yeah ok.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by stazza

Holden needs to just lay down and die already.

Holden could easily drop the profit margin on imported parts from the mother ship , drop some of the management and floor staff and run for decades more in a very profitable situation and deliver what we want to drive , personally I would drop parity and introduce a heavy import for anything not assembled here with at least 70% local content whilst taxing all the built imports to death .

[borough]

Originally Posted by atec77

Holden could easily drop the profit margin on imported parts from the mother ship , drop some of the management and floor staff and run for decades more in a very profitable situation and deliver what we want to drive , personally I would drop parity and introduce a heavy import for anything not assembled here with at least 70% local content whilst taxing all the built imports to death .

With an idea like that it is a good thing that you are not in charge. It would put the country back 40 years and leave us shutoff from the global economy. It is time to accept that it is too expensive to manufacture things here anymore. For a start wages, the thai assembly line worker gets $2 an hour, the Holden worker gets $30-50 an hour. The market here is small, Australia's population is 22 million, compared to 314 million in the USA and 739 million for Europe. Ohh, and we are in the middle of nowhere. Holden and Ford stuck with building unique cars for a small market with little or no exports. It seemed to be OK when 70,000 units were sold a year, not so good when you are selling only 20,000 a year. Toyota on the otherhand build a global car here and export it. They also stopped building the Corolla here in 1999. You have to wonder why Holden choose to build the Cruze here?

In the end I believe it is not if, but when Holden will close thier manufacturing here. To those saying that Ford it the hounerable thing, I beg to differ. I think Ford have given thier workers false hope in saying the plants will close in 2016. It will only take a few more months of bad sales before Ford will decide to stop the damage to thier brand and pull out in 2014. The FU will not be built, leaving the FG MK2 as the last Falcon.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by borough

With an idea like that it is a good thing that you are not in charge. It would put the country back 40 years and leave us shutoff from the global economy. It is time to accept that it is too expensive to manufacture things here anymore. For a start wages, the thai assembly line worker gets $2 an hour, the Holden worker gets $30-50 an hour. The market here is small, Australia's population is 22 million, compared to 314 million in the USA and 739 million for Europe. Ohh, and we are in the middle of nowhere. Holden and Ford stuck with building unique cars for a small market with little or no exports. It seemed to be OK when 70,000 units were sold a year, not so good when you are selling only 20,000 a year. Toyota on the otherhand build a global car here and export it. They also stopped building the Corolla here in 1999. You have to wonder why Holden choose to build the Cruze here?

In the end I believe it is not if, but when Holden will close thier manufacturing here. To those saying that Ford it the hounerable thing, I beg to differ. I think Ford have given thier workers false hope in saying the plants will close in 2016. It will only take a few more months of bad sales before Ford will decide to stop the damage to thier brand and pull out in 2014. The FU will not be built, leaving the FG MK2 as the last Falcon.

I kind of agree with this too . I think we should just become bill stampers . Shop assistants and warehouse technicians der de der der der der

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by stazza

Holden needs to just lay down and die already.

Is it 2016 yet?

[fte50]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

The unions as usual will do their absolute damndest to lose their members their jobs then attempt to blame anyone but themselves . As someone said earlier Union leaders have absolutely zero interest in their members or members welfare it is ALL about using the union movement as a stalking horse to get into politics .

Not even gonna bother preaching / justifying the benefits of unions to all you anti unionists, even though infact the employer groups also belong to a union - its called the AIG. but I will say this.......

The people of Holden are the union, and unlike smaller firms outside, Holdens employees are the actual union reps within areas and are further led by a senior steward.
They are the delegation and then the membership. The 'union leaders' the above mentioned I assume is referring to an organiser.
We have our own terms/conditions and log of claims that they only push forth.
As the employees being there daily, we dictate the terms, not the outside organisers.

And you can bet your bottom dollar since 2009 its been known inside Holden that a future beyond 2016 is grim let alone 2020.
Holden IS CLOSING and trying to do so as cheap as possible !

[Pepscobra]

I am very anti union, I believe they have contributed to the demise of local manufacturing and small business in this once great country... But will these pay cuts actually save Holden?? That is the question.
If there's a chance, the union needs to reconsider their position here; after all, a job on 4/5ths pay is better than no job at all. Some of us have been there before.

[gtfpv]

Do not vote for a pay cut . It isnt the workers wages sending holden down the gurgler .