FPV DECIMATED the HSV!

[futura]

Wheels redyno-test between the HSV GTS and FPV GT-F. http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features...ve-power-test/

Both cars completed three runs at VCM Performance in identical conditions on the same day, and it was the HSV that triumphed, producing a maximum figure of 330kW to the FPV’s 311kW. FPV wasn’t happy, and neither were Ford fans.

To settle the argument, we devised a definitive re-test.

The same cars were used, both were run on two separate dynos, in the same conditions on the same day, and both cars were six-speed automatics. But we went even further to ensure accuracy.

FPV and HSV had engineers on hand, both companies officially confirmed their cars were standard specification and Wheels even employed a qualified and independent engineer to oversee both tests, and both manufacturers.

Every variable was controlled by professionals, from tyre pressures to strapping to ambient air temperature.

The tests took place at two of Australia’s most reputable chassis dynos, Herrod Motorsport and Dyno Dynamics, and to extract a maximum power figure, each car was run until its performance peaked, plateaued and dropped.

In short, without ripping the engines out, this test was as accurate and fair as possible. And it’s a test that produced some surprising results.

On both dynos, the FPV decimated the HSV, producing a peak figure of 323.7kW at Herrod and 343.3kW at Dyno Dynamics. The HSV produced 306.7kW and 322.1kW respectively.

These numbers flaunt the HSV’s paper advantage, showing the FPV is Australia’s true power king, by a clear average margin of 19.1kW.

So why the different result compared to the first test?

Even though they’re both V8s, the two cars produce their power in very different ways. Where the big 6.2-litre supercharged HSV hit its peak power almost immediately on both dynos, the smaller 5.0-litre FPV needed twice as many runs to produce its maximum figure.

The reason for this is the GT-F’s temperamental transient overboost, which can provide an additional 15 percent of power, but only when the engine is in its optimal operating window.

“For transient overboost to be effective, it runs off manifold temperature, so we need consistent temps of about 50-60 degrees,” GT-F project manager Justin Capicchiano said.

“The GT-F is always between 351 and that additional 15 percent, but how much depends on the conditions.

“So you’re always in transient overboost, but you’ll never go below that 351kW figure, which is why we put 351 on the side of the car.”

In the earlier test at VCM Performance, both cars were run just three times, meaning the GT-F didn’t tap into its overboost function.

As for any conspiracy theories about FPV or HSV boosting or tuning their cars to produce more power, forget it. Both Herrod Motorsport and Dyno Dynamics agreed the cars were completely stock.


This is the Dyno test Wheels should of done the first time round. Well done to FPV and Ford for demanding a retest.

[Patty]

There is already a thread about this..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11423506

[Sorted]

Originally Posted by Patty

There is already a thread about this..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11423506

Yes there was but this one has the official video and write up from wheels - love the confirmation both cars are "stock"

[futura]

The Redyno test video by Wheels is the perfect example on how every dyno comparison test should be executed. Results were achieved with both brand representatives being present and an independent third party Engineer to oversee the tests.

[Nova 8]

I can't wait to see how hsv response to having lower dyno numbers. Hsv is the only one with future manufacturing (modifications) interests in Australia. The title of Australia's most powerful car is one they, I would assume, love to have. Unless they are happy with just going with flywheel kw as that's the industry standards. One last power race is a great thing for booths camps in the final days.

[Rodge]

The reason for this is the GT-F’s temperamental transient overboost, which can provide an additional 15 percent of power, but only when the engine is in its optimal operating window

.

This...15% over-boost is a lot and a lot of fun when you can coax it out of your SC engine but in my experience when not in over-boost, which is when the engine is too cold or too hot it feels quite flat by comparison.
The other thing as posted in the other thread, IIRC the LSA engine was barely run-in with 1800 km's on it whereas the GT-F engine had been given a hard run-in and was far from a green engine with about 8,000 km's on it.
This factor could explain a fair bit of the difference in itself but credit where its due, in optimal conditions the SC 5.0 engine is a belter no question about it and the ZF is a very efficient transmission so more of the available power makes its way to the rear wheels.

[rancidpunx]

As we all knew it would be. Would have been really great if Justin bought along a 335 as well as it would also have gone above the HSV's numbers on the day.

[Cashie]

Here's the unbroken link http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features...ve-power-test/
I don't buy their excuse on the transient overboost either... The first dyno run was a joke, the clown doing it had zero idea when he said "these numbers are representative of the cars"

[b0son]

GTF is sold out. so it is true to say the GTS is the most powerful aussie car on sale.

[futura]

Originally Posted by b0son

GTF is sold out. so it is true to say the GTS is the most powerful aussie car on sale.

Your missing the point

[grey_esp]

looking forward to the xr8 sprint :-)

[LooLoo18]

Originally Posted by grey_esp

looking forward to the xr8 sprint :-)

What XR8 Sprint? Have I missed something?

[futura]

Recapping dyno figures;

Herrod Motorsport: GTF 323.7 rwkw GTS 306.7 rwkw (GTF + 17 rwkw)
Dyno Dynamics: GTF 343.3 rwkw GTS 322.1 rwkw (GTF + 21.2 rwkw)

From the above Dyno Figures, no one can argue that the GTF is Australia's Most Powerful Production car made in Australia.

[Grippy]

If you dropped $100k+ on a GTS that was marketed as the "most powerful Australian made car ever" you wouldn't be happy with those results. It just shows what an amazing package the 5.0 Miami is.

[galaxy xr8]

I thought from memory that in the initial test at VCM, the GT-F was ran 9 times on the dyno ?, was it not...

But in this response they claim it was only ran 3 times and that was the reason for the low number’s ?.

Covering track’s ?.

[Patty]

I wonder if they are talking about this in Just Commodores forums or Street Commodores.

One thing though, although the GT-F is more powerful, why is it still the slower car then the GTS? I mean I would prefer the GTF anyday of the week because I'm biased, but comparing both packages, the GTS seems to still be the better package (although it's 15k dearer).

I would have loved it if Ford had brought out a $90,000 GTF that could match the GTS in everyway, not just power, but dynamics and feel. That would have been the best send off ever!

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Patty

I wonder if they are talking about this in Just Commodores forums or Street Commodores.

One thing though, although the GT-F is more powerful, why is it still the slower car then the GTS? I mean I would prefer the GTF anyday of the week because I'm biased, but comparing both packages, the GTS seems to still be the better package (although it's 15k dearer).

I would have loved it if Ford had brought out a $90,000 GTF that could match the GTS in everyway, not just power, but dynamics and feel. That would have been the best send off ever!

Peak power only tells one story, the engine performance is so much more.
6.2 litres does provide a much broader torque curve, the real world results prove there's no replacement for displacement. However, the "little" Miami holds it's own pretty well.

[mik]

Not only that

Originally Posted by Cashie

Peak power only tells one story, the engine performance is so much more.
6.2If litres does provide a much broader torque curve, the real world results prove there's no replacement for displacement. However, the "little" Miami holds it's own pretty well.

Engine on its own is only part of the equation, tyres, suspension set up and gearing play a huge part also, if I remember correctly in the qaurter mile runs earlier the GT was actually making up ground as the speed got higher?

[lucas2]

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

I thought from memory that in the initial test at VCM, the GT-F was ran 9 times on the dyno ?, was it not...

But in this response they claim it was only ran 3 times and that was the reason for the low number’s ?.

Covering track’s ?.

I think the Motoring.com.au test ran it 9 times

[99AUXR]

Thank you Ford for standing up. Never though I would read that title on anything to do with wheels

[DABOSS]

Waiting for someone to actually run these properly down the black top.

[BradEL]

Haha I always here the Holden dealer ads on the radio
"..get yourself into Australias most powerful ever production car ever, the HSV GTS with the full fat 430 kw power..."

Yeah right.....

[DABOSS]

Originally Posted by BradEL

Haha I always here the Holden dealer ads on the radio
"..get yourself into Australias most powerful ever production car ever, the HSV GTS with the full fat 430 kw power..."

Yeah right.....

At least their proactively advertising....

[ebv8]

well on paper the GTS is the most powerfull, but the GTS is still the fastest off the showroom floor, maybe and XR8 Sprint isn't a bad idea.
Holden will retaliate the same as they always have, just offer an intercooled version with a little more boost.
least we still have 18 months of a Ford and Holden fight to look forward to.

[Gambit]

Originally Posted by ebv8

Holden will retaliate the same as they always have, just offer an intercooled version with a little more boost.

The gts is intercooled

[Chopped]

Great result but still not convinced it is putting out more than the 335.

[futura]

Special Message to "Blownhemi" of street machine. Blownhemi posted on the 10-07-14 at 10:59 AM.

Gotta laugh some days.

So last week one of the Wheels guys popped his head over the partition and asked me to recommend a place where they could dyno a new HSV GTS and an FPV GT-F. After just doing a blower install story at VCM Performance, and being impressed with their facilities, I recommended them. Then I asked if they were going to film them.

"We weren't but I guess we should", was the answer.

So I decided to go along and video the whole thing with a view that Wheels would do "their" video and Street Machine do something different.

We drove both cars (both autos) to VCM last Thursday and put them on them on the dyno. The GTS went first and made 330rwkw, which gave the GT-F the best chance to cool down. Then the GT-F ran 311rwkw and we were impressed. The HSV made about what we expected and the Ford made more than we expected. It was about as honest and simple of a dyno test I've ever seen, and the idea was that we would both edit our vids and post them at the same time on Monday.

Then Ford got wind of the result and they weren't happy. So Wheels delayed, and we were told to hold off as well. The phone calls continued all through today as well - I can't reveal the contents of those calls, I'd probably get fired. Let's just say Ford were VERY unhappy. Ford reckons the GT-F should have made more.
Then mysteriously a rival publication went to print with very different figures today (hmm, wonder how that happened) and the decision was made to pull the trigger on our results. Then everyone lost their minds!

Personally I don't see the drama. We all know Ford has underquoted the Miami-powered GT for years. The GTS made about what you'd expect and the Ford made lots more than we expected. Ford should be happy, everyone should be happy, but nope. Apparently everyone believes that an unintercooled 5-litre should make more power than an intercooled 6.2-litre.

After reading and seeing the redyno video of the GTF "Decimate" the HSV, What would you like to say now mate?

Give you a hint! An apology to Ford will be a great place to start.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by futura

.

After reading and seeing the redyno video of the GTF "Decimate" the HSV, What would you like to say now mate?

Give you a hint! An apology to Ford will be a great place to start.

The ford probably hadn't cooled down enough or was too cold. Not making the extra boost and put out those numbers. Just because people don't get the same high numbers out of the gtf doesn't mean they tried to cheat Ford, it just means it wasn't ran at its perfect temp which I think was said to be between 50-60*c in the video. If you roll up to a dyno your first run is gonna be lower like in the video, obviously the addition of an intercooler is a brilliant modification.


Just out of curiousity on the 6.2L vs 5L comparison. We know the 6.2L is a large dinosaur when comparing kw/L with the Ford. But how does the Miami compare to the Europeans, BMWs 4.4L V8 for example, is it up there with the best when talking kw/L

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Nova 8

Just out of curiousity on the 6.2L vs 5L comparison. We know the 6.2L is a large dinosaur when comparing kw/L with the Ford. But how does the Miami compare to the Europeans, BMWs 4.4L V8 for example, is it up there with the best when talking kw/L

Specific output doesnt mean much when you move to forced induction though. But for comparisons sake, the current twin turbo F10 M5 is rated at 412kw from a 4.4L, compared to the 5L GT at 404kw when rated on 15% overboost.

The 6.2 in the LS9 variant is rated at 476kw though, with an extra intercooler, bigger supercharger and higher compression

[RHR]

And the merry go round continues