How does the welfare system work

[car10002]

Hi

Just intrested to know how the welfare system works because you hear of people doing it tough on it, one lady from adelaide is on it and was on today tonight and she said she could only afford one fast food meal from hungry jacks per day.

People should get enough to pay bills and know they will have enough each week and have no worries.

Should people be able to get ahead on it?

Why is it only meant to barely cover bills?

Why is it only meant for bare essentials?

Why do people do it tough and have no spare money left wether it's to save or get gopher fixed or car?

Why does the dole pay less than the dsp or old age?

Why do they want to do a cashless card for the dole and what restrictions is there?

Why is there a rule for single parents that when youngest turns 8 they're down to the dole when some study full time or work part time already? And why do some have baby after baby to stay on it

Just intrested to know how it works because you hear of people on current affair shows doing it tough and saying they can't afford this and can afford that?

[Simple6]

Because we don't have an infinite amount of money to just give people to satisfy their 'wants'.

The welfare system allows people to survive and that's it. For the dole and study allowances it's supposed to be a stop gap for people getting back on their feet and into normal working life or to keep them afloat whilst studying.

Disability pension - well that's different, but we still don't have money to just give away.

Cashless card? I work in an industry where I get to see people on the dole spending our tax money getting drunk. Seeing it getting wasted on booze when it could be used to buy clothes for job interviews or anything productive is frustrating, especially when there are children involved and they forgo a meal so dad can knock some beers down at the pub.

Our money - our rules.

[DOC]

buddy way to many questions, so here is one more to add to the list, why are people happy to stay on welfare if it is so darn bad for them, as per your questions.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by DOC

buddy way to many questions, so here is one more to add to the list, why are people happy to stay on welfare if it is so darn bad for them, as per your questions.

Because they don't have to do anything to get it. Whole generations of cradle to the grave welfare families are the result of such a mentality.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by car10002

Hi

Just intrested to know how the welfare system works because you hear of people doing it tough on it, one lady from adelaide is on it and was on today tonight and she said she could only afford one fast food meal from hungry jacks per day.

However - the same price of 1 fast food meal would allow her to buy enough ingredients for 3 simple square meals as well.

It is her choice where she spends her money and her choice if she chooses to do so in a foolish manner.

People should get enough to pay bills and know they will have enough each week and have no worries.

Yes, but you are already behind the 8 ball if you are renting. Having said that, what you pay in rent - or where you live for that matter is your choice.

Should people be able to get ahead on it?

Welfare? In my opinion, no. But what you do with the money is your business and if you make do with it and have a little left great for you.

Why is it only meant to barely cover bills?

Caus if something is assumed to be free people take advantage of it. Like the workers that don't to that extra overtime or the 5th day as it may effect their entitlements.

Why is it only meant for bare essentials?

Because if you have worked all your life and have nothing to show for it any more will be wasted like the rest of the income you had access to.

Why do people do it tough and have no spare money left wether it's to save or get gopher fixed or car?

Define doing it tough? Sophie Delezio had it tough, Turia Pitt did it tough. If you have 2 arms and 2 legs and an ability to earn an income you are not doing it tough.

Why does the dole pay less than the dsp or old age?

Don't know.

Why do they want to do a cashless card for the dole and what restrictions is there?

So they know where and how our money is being spent.

Why is there a rule for single parents that when youngest turns 8 they're down to the dole when some study full time or work part time already? And why do some have baby after baby to stay on it

Probably get a ton of money in funding (baby bonus??) - I don't know as I'm not a prolific breeder.

Just intrested to know how it works because you hear of people on current affair shows doing it tough and saying they can't afford this and can afford that?

Yes. I heard a lady on the radio say that she can't afford to live in Brighton (Sydney) any more as the rents are too high.

I heard a guy say that he has worked full time for 50 years but is not happy to wait for the public system to fix he teeth as he doesn't have the $5k needed to do it privately.

These people need to both complain to the person looking at them in a mirror.

Don't know - never applied for any type of hand outs or funding. Was brought up believing that hard work and sacrifice was the way to get ahead.

I was shocked to hear of elderly married couples getting legally divorced to claim benefits as 2 singles as opposed to a couple because it means an extra $100 or so per fortnight. Really???

Sorry if my views come across as elitist or judgemental. Sorry if I have offended anyone that has had it tough. Just my opinion and I know that some peoples circumstances are honestly out of their control.

[car10002]

You hear of it on current affair shows a lot and you wonder sometimes

And when it's enough for people to live on there should be enough to allow room incase people happen to use a bit more power or water than that thought so they can pay it

How do genuine people survive on the dole if it's less than disabled or age that can't find work or studying

Why do they want to do cashless card for them and from what can be understood it's for dole and whatever else may only be for people that started getting it last 12-18 months and ones on it like age an disabled and have been for years are under old system

And people should get enough to allow for going a bit over utilities than first thought and old age and dsp that can't work should get close to quality of living than workers if not exact seen stories of old ladys that can't afford to run heater or aircon

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by car10002

You hear of it on current affair shows a lot and you wonder sometimes

And when it's enough for people to live on there should be enough to allow room incase people happen to use a bit more power or water than that thought so they can pay it

And people should get enough to allow for going a bit over utilities than first thought and old age and dsp that can't work should get close to quality of living than workers if not exact seen stories of old ladys that can't afford to run heater or aircon

Are you going to pay more tax to give away to other people?

Currently the average amount paid in tax per person is nearly $19,000 each. How much more do you want each of us to lose from our earnings to pay for these daily Hungry Jacks meals? Or the $40 packet of cigarettes?

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Simple6

Are you going to pay more tax to give away to other people?

Currently the average amount paid in tax per person is nearly $19,000 each. How much more do you want each of us to lose from our earnings to pay for these daily Hungry Jacks meals? Or the $40 packet of cigarettes?

Your gross generalisation and contempt for those on welfare is about as disgusting as a Hungry Jacks meal & a $40 packet of cigarettes.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Your gross generalisation and contempt for those on welfare is about as disgusting as a Hungry Jacks meal & a $40 packet of cigarettes.

To be fair, their onion rings are ok. ;)

My thoughts are that welfare exists for a reason. I'm sure the majority are not taking advantage of the system, but if some people are, then it's the weak as sauce government bending to the loudest minority voices and not making it work for those whose circumstance gives them no choice but to be on welfare.

I've got no issue in paying taxes to support, because the way I look at it, given different circumstance and choices I could have made throughout the years, I may have found myself and family needing support.

You will always get the people that take advantage (human nature to an extent), but again that advantage for those that do, only exists because the checks and balances in place are not enough, or to weak to weed those types out. I'd rather we ***** and moan about the few, than disadvantage the many.

All IMO.

[Adamz Ghia]

Our welfare system is a joke if you're trying to have a go.

My mum was beaten senseless by her ex husband and as such she struggled for a few years and being left with no family and kids to raise never did any further education.

When I came along she had a job and her wage was topped up by a single parent payment. This allowed her to feed me well, take me out on a weekend, buy everything I needed for school, my sister and brother then came along and again, we never went without, mum did but us kids had everything we could want.

Then they changed the rules and for every dollar over an amount mum earned she would lose part of her payment. The more she worked the less money she got. It got to the stage where she was working 45 hours a week and earning less than what she was working 30 hours a week. What the hell is the point?? By all means if you're earning enough to support yourself then you don't need welfare but taking away a third of a persons income in one hit is simply wrong.

In the end we didn't do much of a Christmas, Easter, birthdays were low key, I had to pay for my own schooling out of my own money I earned from doing odd jobs for neighbours, so did my sister and brother. Basically everything I needed from age 14 onwards I had to provide for myself as mum simply couldn't work anymore than she was no she had the two younger ones to look after.

The system actively encouraged mum not to work. and then we have these scumbags that collect Centrelink as if it's owed to them and despite all the noise the government makes nothing ever happens to them.

I don't profess to know the solution for a perfect system but the one we have now, having lived it, is wrong, especially for parents, single or not. Kids should never miss out on anything as their parents life isn't their fault. Perhaps a card system is the way to go, or half cash half card. The idea of suspending welfare payments was unbelievably brain dead. How is one meant to support themselves?

The argument that it's not your job to support someone else's kids is silly as well. They may not be yours but they need to be given every opportunity to break the welfare cycle and make something of themselves. Yes it's the job of their parents but again it is not the kids fault. If we leave them to rot with their parents the cycle continues and the next generation will have the same problems as us.

Sorry for the rant and hope I got my point across. Again, I don't know the solution but welfare needs to at least allow people to live with dignity.

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Your gross generalisation and contempt for those on welfare is about as disgusting as a Hungry Jacks meal & a $40 packet of cigarettes.

I've got no issue with people who need to be on welfare - it's an essential service. It's great knowing that if you fall on tough times, there's a safety net.

However, I do have an issue when people say we need to pay more to welfare recipients because where are we supposed to come up with the money? We run a yearly budget deficit, fall further into debt year on year - if Australia was a business, the liquidators would have been in years ago.

It's such a hard topic though and I don't know the solution, so I don't envy those running the show that's for sure...

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Simple6

I've got no issue with people who need to be on welfare - it's an essential service. It's great knowing that if you fall on tough times, there's a safety net.

However, I do have an issue when people say we need to pay more to welfare recipients because where are we supposed to come up with the money? We run a yearly budget deficit, fall further into debt year on year - if Australia was a business, the liquidators would have been in years ago.

It's such a hard topic though and I don't know the solution, so I don't envy those running the show that's for sure...

Sorry mate, I came out swinging at you for no particular reason other than it was the most recent comment on welfare recipients, and I took it out of proportion...

For where the money can come from:

The corporate tax rate is a murky area. Cutting it could mean [coalition]Jobs and Growth[/coalition] with both of these adding to the Govt's coffers (if the corporations benefiting from this do in fact increase available jobs due to their tax-cut-assisted growth), otherwise there'll be less corporate tax payments AND no change to the public taxpayer's payments. Keeping it/increasing it could see further job cuts or further shiftings of profits off-shore, thus reducing to the Govt's coffers, or the corporations could find a way to absorb this and thus increase to the Govt's coffers.

Proposed 2% cut to the >$180k tax bracket and cuts to the >$80k tax bracket will only reward the rich. Surely the reverse should occur, increasing the ceilings for the lower tax brackets but cutting it back based on overall earnings above the lower tax brackets.

And Grunter - for the record I don't mind the odd binge on Hungry Jacks, although I do feel disgusting afterwards The durries I can live without, each to their own there

[car10002]

And people doing right thing shouldn't have to suffer because of a few

[superyob]

Originally Posted by car10002

And people doing right thing shouldn't have to suffer because of a few

It's more than a few, much, much more than a few...

Strip welfare and the attitudes of entitlement that it fosters and there would all of a sudden be a lot more people working in those jobs that previously went unfilled...

[Trevor 57]

Another question:

why do we need to bring people in from overseas to fill jobs that an unemployed Australian can do (but choose not to)

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Another question:

why do we need to bring people in from overseas to fill jobs that an unemployed Australian can do (but choose not to)

I used to work for doh as a carpenter looking after a dodgy Sydney suburb with 835 houses. I would average 30 small jobs a week and all I would show up without notice. Each week I'd leave 4 'calling cards' for no one home and out of that 4 only 1 would be out because they have a job.

It made my job easy but really annoyed me that I'm working and people that could work are just way to lazy and won't replace a $15 door handle that was kicked off.

They should all be out doing jobs that we struggle to fill

Rant over (picked your post because I agree)

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

Another question:

why do we need to bring people in from overseas to fill jobs that an unemployed Australian can do (but choose not to)

That's an easy one.

Look at the type of workers we bring in.

Then, go to many places of low level / status employment and see the type of workers there.

Go to any fast food place and see who works there - especially Friday and Saturday nights. I just came back from Costco. Look at the type of worker there.

No doubt they are Aussie, but not the blonde haired blue eyed bronzed chesty bonds type many associate an Aussie to be.

I had 3 shizer kicker jobs in my teens and during uni. 1 in a discount store, one major supermarket and one major department store.

I can think of only 3-5 typical Aussie workers, the rest (including myself) were first generation migrants or their kids from Asia, Europe or the Middle East.

We didn't steal jobs from anyone, we just did the work at non desirable times in non desirable conditions for non desirable pay because others simply couldn't be bothered.

And we were always thankful and asked for more!

[LTD Ute]

Anyone here thinks they can live independently on Newstart or
Youth allowance at $265 a week?

I've been working in the Welfare/Homeless sector for over 30 years
and you would be ashamed of the plight your fellow Australians endure.

We have families sleeping in cars and can only eat cold baked beans
and canned soups because they have no means of heating their food.

There are thirty people queuing outside our office from 7.30 before
we open our doors at 9.00 for emergency housing assistance and
about a third get turned away because we have no more money
and appointments.

This is our Australia today and most are oblivious to it.

I'm obliged to keep my mouth shut in my contract, but, I work for you.

[LTD Ute]

And yes, we can tell who are the minority Proffesional Welfare Recipients
and the overwhelmingly majority needy.

We do prioritise the little we have to help.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by LTD Ute

Anyone here thinks they can live independently on Newstart or
Youth allowance at $265 a week?

I've been working in the Welfare/Homeless sector for over 30 years
and you would be ashamed of the plight your fellow Australians endure.

We have families sleeping in cars and can only eat cold baked beans
and canned soups because they have no means of heating their food.

There are thirty people queuing outside our office from 7.30 before
we open our doors at 9.00 for emergency housing assistance and
about a third get turned away because we have no more money
and appointments.

This is our Australia today and most are oblivious to it.

I'm obliged to keep my mouth shut in my contract, but, I work for you.

I leave my farm gate open at night now.
It's surprising the number of people that have pulled in for the night the last couple of years.

Always in vans and usually kids involved.
It is distressing to see and it makes me so angry when I hear people putting them down, claiming they are paying to support them but then they're very happy to collect family tax benefit abc which is far more money than welfare recipients will see in a lifetime.

Another rort is workcover. Insurance companies appear to be able to tip injured workers onto the dole without fear.
Australia is run by lobbyists not elected politicians

[car10002]

Probably lazy ones? And you wonder wether they really do it tough a single lady on highway patrol with 6 kids got stopped by police and van was unroadworthy an she said to police it's hard on pension to do anything

[b0son]

Originally Posted by car10002

People should get enough to pay bills and know they will have enough each week and have no worries.

Depends which bills. NBN? Foxtel? The latest iphone? No.

Should people be able to get ahead on it?

No. They should just scrape by.

Why is it only meant to barely cover bills?

Because (1) we should discourage people seeing it as a viable long-term means of support, and (2) noone has a right to expect taxpayers to fund a lifestyle.

Why is it only meant for bare essentials?

See above.

Why do people do it tough and have no spare money left wether it's to save or get gopher fixed or car?

See above.

Why does the dole pay less than the dsp or old age?

DSP recipients typically have higher costs. Old age are a big slice of the voting public.

Why is there a rule for single parents that when youngest turns 8 they're down to the dole when some study full time or work part time already? And why do some have baby after baby to stay on it

When your child is of school age, there's no sensible reason for you to be a stay at home parent.

Just intrested to know how it works because you hear of people on current affair shows doing it tough and saying they can't afford this and can afford that?

Australia by and large is in love with the word 'entitled' ... it isnt just the unemployed, its the middle class wanting childcare subsidies and family tax benefit, its the old age trying to guilt trip the younger workers to pay more tax so they can live more comfortably in their retirement, its the workers that want jobs to get easier and easier but pay to only ever go higher and higher.... fundamentally, we all want to feather our nests. Its human nature.

[car10002]

As for bills it means have some extra to allow if you used more power and water than you thought or normally use or if you need to go to doctor or dentist not foxtel or latest phone

And people that do right thing shouldn't have to suffer for ones that don't

And most means old people or disabled that can't work or worked a lot of years and can no longer work and how do people survive on dole if it's less

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by car10002

As for bills it means have some extra to allow if you used more power and water than you thought or normally use or if you need to go to doctor or dentist not foxtel or latest phone

And people that do right thing shouldn't have to suffer for ones that don't

And most means old people or disabled that can't work or worked a lot of years and can no longer work and how do people survive on dole if it's less

Simple if someone on welfare does not like it they can do what I been doing since the day I turned 15 and they can go to work and earn a living.

Anyone that says they can't find a job is full of **** and lazy. I never had a problem finding a job.

People on a pension or disability payment need to be looked after as they have either worked or they are not able to work, seems pretty simple to me.

again to reiterate, if anyone is unhappy with what they get, may be they can be up with me at 5:30am tomorrow and come and work with me for 10 hours, then they won't have time to whine and complain.

To be honest I think people get too much money on welfare already, as there are plenty that have never worked a day in their lives and seem to be getting drunk every week end

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Simple if someone on welfare does not like it they can do what I been doing since the day I turned 15 and they can go to work and earn a living.

Anyone that says they can't find a job is full of **** and lazy. I never had a problem finding a job.

People on a pension or disability payment need to be looked after as they have either worked or they are not able to work, seems pretty simple to me.

again to reiterate, if anyone is unhappy with what they get, may be they can be up with me at 5:30am tomorrow and come and work with me for 10 hours, then they won't have time to whine and complain.

To be honest I think people get too much money on welfare already, as there are plenty that have never worked a day in their lives and seem to be getting drunk every week end

Do you know what the welfare rate is?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Do you know what the welfare rate is?

I have no idea and really don't want to know, I work for a living.

But since people spend their whole life on welfare smoking pot and getting drunk on cask wine it can't be all that bad...

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Simple if someone on welfare does not like it they can do what I been doing since the day I turned 15 and they can go to work and earn a living.

Anyone that says they can't find a job is full of **** and lazy. I never had a problem finding a job.

People on a pension or disability payment need to be looked after as they have either worked or they are not able to work, seems pretty simple to me.

again to reiterate, if anyone is unhappy with what they get, may be they can be up with me at 5:30am tomorrow and come and work with me for 10 hours, then they won't have time to whine and complain.

To be honest I think people get too much money on welfare already, as there are plenty that have never worked a day in their lives and seem to be getting drunk every week end

So tell me if I have this right. If I send you my details, you can aim me at some employment?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by sprintman1

So tell me if I have this right. If I send you my details, you can aim me at some employment?

No you would have to get off your own backside and get a job, it's not hard. There are plenty of jobs around.

We live in a small town and there is more work than people, missus has two jobs and could have three if she wanted to or had 40 hr days available, I work 10-12 hr days.

I started working at 15 never been out of work, I have collected trolleys, carried bricks on building sites, mixed concrete, poured concrete, dug trenches, stood on factory floors, loaded trucks, stacked pallets, etc etc all jobs no one wanted all paid well and all are freely available.

I remember working as a labourers, people would start and quit by smoko as their hands were sore or it was too hard, then whine they had no money.

So if you don't have a job go and get one don't wait for others to do it for you, if you can't find work in a week you are not trying.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

No you would have to get off your own backside and get a job, it's not hard. There are plenty of jobs around.

We live in a small town and there is more work than people, missus has two jobs and could have three if she wanted to or had 40 hr days available, I work 10-12 hr days.

I started working at 15 never been out of work, I have collected trolleys, carried bricks on building sites, mixed concrete, poured concrete, dug trenches, stood on factory floors, loaded trucks, stacked pallets, etc etc all jobs no one wanted all paid well and all are freely available.

I remember working as a labourers, people would start and quit by smoko as their hands were sore or it was too hard, then whine they had no money.

So if you don't have a job go and get one don't wait for others to do it for you, if you can't find work in a week you are not trying.

#yourockmyworld

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

No you would have to get off your own backside and get a job, it's not hard. There are plenty of jobs around.

We live in a small town and there is more work than people, missus has two jobs and could have three if she wanted to or had 40 hr days available, I work 10-12 hr days.

I started working at 15 never been out of work, I have collected trolleys, carried bricks on building sites, mixed concrete, poured concrete, dug trenches, stood on factory floors, loaded trucks, stacked pallets, etc etc all jobs no one wanted all paid well and all are freely available.

I remember working as a labourers, people would start and quit by smoko as their hands were sore or it was too hard, then whine they had no money.

So if you don't have a job go and get one don't wait for others to do it for you, if you can't find work in a week you are not trying.

I've been trying for two years. Maybe you can enlighten me?