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#1 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 363
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I think not.
February sales were as follows - Territory: 1300 Falcon: 2600 Total: 3900 Holden - Commodore: 4300 Since the territory is derivation of a Falcon, we can consider this beaut SUV as a Falcon.. with only 400 sales difference, so in turn, i don't seem understand what the media exaggeration on Ford Aus sales loss is about? When the BA/BF combined with Territory was at its sales peak, Ford Aus was undoubtedly profiteering more than Holden could dream of.. I believe this trend will return once FG sales kick in. |
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#2 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
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and what exactly has this got to do with the FG?
this is the FG 'Orion' Knowledge Hub after all. |
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#3 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 363
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Sorry mr. mod, feel free to move it where it belongs
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 22,909
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Sales are quiet due to people waiting for the new Model. not to mention the fact that theres very LITTLE stock left in BFII guise, unless ofcourse you want an XT or XL ute... Not many XR's left.
Id say June will see Ford up around the 4000 mark with the Falcon again... or close to it neways providing they can get the right cars in stock.
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#5 | ||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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You cant class Territory as a Falcon even though it is based on a Falcon.
You then have to class Captiva as a Commodore. |
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#6 | |||
Cobblers!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Shire, NSW
Posts: 4,489
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Quote:
Falcon and Falcon Ute could be combined, however. If you want to compare the Factories, look at Locally produced. When we get Focus, Locally produced will be far over and above Holdens.
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#7 | ||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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The thread says is Ford losing in sales. Well yes they are as Holden, as a whole, outsells them.
If you want to talk about the local cars built in the lineups then yes Ford isnt far off. But dont add Territory to Falcon sales when comparing to Commodore as its in a completely different class. Ford Aus doesnt just sell local built cars. Neither does Holden. |
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#8 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,798
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Quote:
In terms of locally built Ford has been (not sure about this year) selling more locally built cars then Holden has. As for export I'd love to know the margin they make because I'd be surprised if they were large profits per unit with the way our dollar is. |
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#9 | |||
Flat floor shifter
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: swappers xing
Posts: 504
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Quote:
Dont think focus and falcon will be far over holdens locally built for export and sale here. Holden sell a ship load of commodores for export that dont get added to monthly commo sales.( anyone know exact figures of this????) To say the territory has similarity's to the falcon and therefore should be added to falcon sales ![]() |
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#10 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 436
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#11 | |||
The Vengeful One
![]() Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tazzy
Posts: 12,762
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#12 | |||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ...in the shed
Posts: 3,386
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But Captiva is nothing like the Commydore, its not built here, doesnt share any parts with the commy and in no way looks like one..
The Terry has strong styling cues that link it to the BA, it was pretty much a chunky wagon with AWD, even shares the same engines. |
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#14 | ||
BUILT FORD TUFF
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mackay QLD
Posts: 1,919
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Dont forget that this is only local numbers and does not account for holdens large export numbers. This will see half of there production exported
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#15 | |||
FORMERLY TX3DUDE
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: "THE GONG"
Posts: 2,487
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You can skew the numbers any way you want to make any point you want. Ford is still selling cars that are locally built and doesnt look like stopping. Territory is a good example of the smart way of doing things - value adding to the development costs of falcon and producing a car that people want. Territory has now been selling roughly 1500 per month since 2004 without so much as an upgrade in a market segment that used to be owned by toyota nuf sed
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#16 | ||
radio off =save petrol :P
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: northernbeaches(NSW)
Posts: 588
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It is ridiculous to class to totally different vehicles as the same,The territory can and will never be classed as just a offroad falcon.
Do not worry about sales in general.You need to look at the sales of the model for the month in comparison to YTD.Fords market share,has been up and down,and at the moment is just below 10%,at about 9.6.Focus sales are up,Falcon sales are down-for obvious reasons. You asked a rhetorical question as you answered you'r own question,in forum based discussion's this is useless.
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#17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gren A Waverrey
Posts: 2,367
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Holden Commodores almost always sell better than Falcons...I don't care about that.
What I do care about is despite Ford's Australian-built vehicles still selling pretty well, the media spits out diarrhoea like "Ford Australia Future in Doubt" or something to that effect. The average Joe or Jane poos their undies/knickers and says, "With such doubt over this company's future in Australia, I don't want to spend money buying this car, only to have the company cease manufacturing operations in Australia, thereby possible increasing costs for repairs/servicing. I think I'll go with a Toyota or Holden instead." The media need to support Australian industry (in this case, Ford Australia), rather than splash red paint all over it. Ford is doing ok...sure, the Falcon isn't selling as well as hoped, but it's still a good car, and the FG will be even better. I'm also sick to death of people saying, "The FG looks the same as the BA-BFII". Funny...I've always thought the VE looks like the VZ...I tend to liken it to a pig on steroids. The new Falcon's power may not be in its physical difference from the BFII...it will be the handling, quality of ride, interior quality and other things that can't be judged by opening a door and taking a look. To judge the quality of interior, you need to drive the car and see how much it rattles, and how quickly the vinyl deteriorates, among other things. Holden has a shithouse interior setup with it's impeding A-pillar, but of course, people don't tend to hear about that.
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#18 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 242
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If Ford's market share is only 10%,it's only a matter of time 'til they pull the plug on aus manufacturing.I use to work at mitsubishi's lonsdale plant, in 1996, I can remember my supervisor giving us the year to date market share. Mitsubishi had 12% of the local market, Ford/holden had about 20% each(from memory) Toyota had about 8% aus manufactured car's and the rest of there market share made up of import model's. The rest of the market was import's. Then I reckon it was about year 2000, supervisor inform's us that import's have out sold local manufactured car's for the first time ever. We knew it was only a matter of time 'til mitsubishi shut up shop. So when I see that Ford is closing it's Geelong plant (Lonsdale was the mitsubishi engine plant,that was closed first) and only has 10% of the market, it does'nt look good for ford Aus
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#19 | |||
Cobblers!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Shire, NSW
Posts: 4,489
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Quote:
vztrt - I have been thinking the same thing. Holden were making bucketloads of cash when the dollar was ~75¢US, however today, with near parity, Holden can still sell an SS for ~35,000 US. Either they are cooking the books, Australia pays too much for their cars, or Holden is selling their exports at a loss. GM is notorious for flooding the order books to keep a factory going, but this often doesn't turn into a real profit.
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#20 | ||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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I'd be suprised if GMH declare a profit for 07/08. They will still be writing down the development cost of the VE.
2006 - $146 million loss 2005 - $144 million loss 2004 - $300.8 million profit 2003 - $285.6 million profit 2002 - $256.5 million profit And don't forget that Ford Oz paid Ford Detroit a $300M dividend (gift) in 2005 to prop up the poor performing US operations and posted a $148M EBIT. As far as VE cost in US and elsewhere, well corporations all over will transfer product inhouse at factory cost to minimise local taxation, import duties, tarrifs, etc. |
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#21 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 242
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Yes, mitsubishi as a whole was making a loss, but FoMoCo is too
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#22 | |||
Cobblers!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Shire, NSW
Posts: 4,489
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Quote:
This comparison might help explain a couple of things; including how the exchange rate is effecting Holden's Billion Dollar Baby, and also how much Territory is helping Ford's bottom line. After Tax Profits 1996 to Present ......Ford...(Holden) 1996..217.3..(243.0) 1997..179.5..(172.0) 1998...58.0..(166.0) 1999...82.3..(135.0) 2000..Loss - 16.1..(237.0) 2001..Loss - 5.5..(285.0) 2002...20.4..(252.0) 2003..154.6..(286.0) 2004..185.6..(216.6) 2005..148.2..(Loss - 145.0) 2006..Loss - 40.3..(Loss - 147.0) 2007 - to be announced Ford have managed to keep a tidy profit, or a small loss (not the 140 Million plus that Holden record). It also shows how close to collapse AU took Ford (not knocking the car, stating facts). As long as the parent company has faith in the subsidiaries, there is just cause for keeping it operational. MMC didn't have much faith in MMAL, otherwise they would have been offered another product to build locally. Lancer would have allowed them to stay open easily.
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#23 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tasmania
Posts: 84
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If I'm not mistaken Ford Au were ceasing the Falcon wagon. This would mean the RWD Territory would replace the wagon and could be in the same class.
Otherwise the Territory dose answer the question: Is Ford losing in Sales? |
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#24 | ||
_Oo===oO_
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,305
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Ford sells just as many locally built cars in Australia as Holden, if not more.
The three big questions are: Are Fords sales enough to keep the local products alive? Are Holdens exports of local product worthwhile (re:exchange rate) and if not are Holdens local sales enough to keep their local products alive? Theres alot of red ink in the Holden margin there for the last two years, thats a little alarming! |
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#25 | ||
Meep Meep
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southside
Posts: 1,513
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MMAL would probably still be around if they re tooled for the Lancer.
Holden domestically is outselling Ford. But I reckon by 2010 the Factory should be up to capacity, and FPV will have a full order book for F6's. Holden might still hold the mantle but one of the 2 is going to have to pull something special out of the hat to stop people from buying imports (fingers crossed its the focus)
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Thundering on.... |
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#26 | |||
Cobblers!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Shire, NSW
Posts: 4,489
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Quote:
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Ego BFII Ghia Titanium Silver E53 X5 4.4i Gunmetal EF XR6. Now retired from active duty. Roses are red. Violets are blue. OS X rocks. Homage to you. |
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#27 | ||
XP Coupe
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,098
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Now that would be nice, a mid sized rear wheel drive.
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#28 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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#29 | |||
Cobblers!
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: The Shire, NSW
Posts: 4,489
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Quote:
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Ego BFII Ghia Titanium Silver E53 X5 4.4i Gunmetal EF XR6. Now retired from active duty. Roses are red. Violets are blue. OS X rocks. Homage to you. |
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#30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cattai, Sydney
Posts: 7,701
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and whats the problem going on here?!!
LACK OF ADVERTISING!!! LACK OF VEHICLE DIVERSITY!!! WHY WONT FORD AUS LISTEN TO US!!! they should build a mid size coupe/convertible.. something to match the saab's and such, i'd definately buy one if i could afford it.. i think australia is screaming for a good I6/V8 coupe/hardtop/soft top and the only ones around are beemers, saabs and vectra's.. thats about it.. nothing else stands out to me(AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM! FORD DONT STAND OUT ANYMORE!)
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